Differentiating Double Kicks

[Kung Fu Wang]

Do you explain the principle? How is it that kick X sets up kick Y. or do they have to figure it out?

You explain the principles first.

When you kick, your opponent can

- block your kick with arm,
- block your kick with leg,
- step back, or
- ...

If you give one example for each situations, you then let your students to come up the rest.

Example of using roundhouse kick to set up side kick.

 

[Earl Weiss]

You explain the principles first.

I think I use a slightly broader definition of "Concept" or "principle" when it comes to explain reasoning behind the "stock" combinations. Those concepts can then be used to expand upon those combinations or develop new ones. 1. Any concept can be violated to surprise the opponent who would not expect the concept to be violated. 2. Combinations are used to create openings. 3. Openings are created by varying the level and / or angle of attack. (i.e Attack high, opponent raises hand(s) to block high exposing middle.) 4. Begin combinations with lead hand or foot (Closest weapon to closest target: Bruce Lee) etc.
One of my favorite sayings is: If I teach you a hundred techniques (combinations) you may understand a single concept. If I tech you a single concept you will understand 100 techniques(combinations). Don't recall where I stole that from.

 

[skribs]

One of my favorite sayings is: If I teach you a hundred techniques (combinations) you may understand a single concept. If I tech you a single concept you will understand 100 techniques(combinations). Don't recall where I stole that from.

This is one of the reasons I want to depart from numbers. For example, at my current school, our white belt punch defenses all feature a similar step, block, and strike. Instead of memorizing the 5 specific block-and-strike combos, I'd rather have the white belt punch defense be just that - step in, block, and strike. I can expand that to kick defense as well (just a different block). Instead of having 5 specific moves for 1 technique, I have 1 concept that applies to 2 techniques, and you can use a wider variety of techniques with that concept.

When you do the same with combinations, there's an exponential increase in the number of possible combinations when you learn more techniques, footwork, and ways of combining techniques together. I can memorize 8 techniques that teach 8 concepts and have really developed 8 combinations. Or I can learn 8 techniques and 8 concepts and have easy access to 64 combinations. (I'm way over-simplifying, the real number would be exponentially higher).

 

[CB Jones]

Jacob has specific combos that he likes to do that are named.....it makes it easier during bag work and our sparring cause I can just call out a name. It also makes discussing strategy between fights quicker. (During the fight he is on his own)

For example:

Alpha - jab or backhand to head....revrse punch body.....front roundhouse kick head

Bravo low - reverse punch body or head...right hook head....round house kick liver

Bravo high - reverse punch body or head...right hook head....round house kick head

Charlie side - backhand head...reverse punch body or head...sidekick body

Charlie hook - backhand head...reverse punch body or head...hook kick head.

He has around 12 combos like this that he drills and uses in matches.

 

[Earl Weiss]

I think it is a lot to expect to have a beginner under fire in a sparring match try to figure out how to use a concept. That is why we initially drill "canned" combinations. No processing required. That comes with experience.

 

[skribs]

I think it is a lot to expect to have a beginner under fire in a sparring match try to figure out how to use a concept. That is why we initially drill "canned" combinations. No processing required. That comes with experience.

I'd just have one or two concepts per level.

And my plan is to do drills. Just not canned ones. Maybe bottled ones?

 

[dvcochran]

I think it is a lot to expect to have a beginner under fire in a sparring match try to figure out how to use a concept. That is why we initially drill "canned" combinations. No processing required. That comes with experience.

Agree. I think a person has to learn the concept and then learn how/when to use it. It has to become a conditioned response based on the 'what if' in front of them.
Sparring, self defense, and most sports have very large elements of both generating response And responding to an occurrence. That give and take is something most people have to learn through hands on, real world application. Largely through hard contact sparring for most. I do not feel learning skills through an ambiguous name is a good idea. Instead, we try to use the commonly known technical names. Front/lead, back/reverse, etc... Within these we will teach the use of each skill. Front leg roundhouse, back leg roundhouse, etc....
The how/why of stepping up or stepping back can be taught universally for all the basic kicks I think but it is a VERY integral part of kicking/striking.

 

[skribs]

I do not feel learning skills through an ambiguous name is a good idea. Instead, we try to use the commonly known technical names. Front/lead, back/reverse, etc... Within these we will teach the use of each skill. Front leg roundhouse, back leg roundhouse, etc....

On the one hand, the technical names can be different from school to school. ITF schools would call it a "turning kick" instead of a "roundhouse kick." On the other hand, I'm not sure what you mean by "ambiguous name"...once set, I'd use the same terminology for the same concept.

And then drill that concept a bunch in different ways as part of teaching.

 

[dvcochran]

On the one hand, the technical names can be different from school to school. ITF schools would call it a "turning kick" instead of a "roundhouse kick." On the other hand, I'm not sure what you mean by "ambiguous name"...once set, I'd use the same terminology for the same concept.

And then drill that concept a bunch in different ways as part of teaching.

True that various schools/systems use the same terms differently but it is much easier to interpret 'turning kick' versus 'kick #3. Either way a person will likely have to adapt from school to school but it seems rather easy for a person to associate a number with a kick and never really understand that they are doing a roundhouse, for example. "Do kick #3" . Yes sir!. "Do a roundhouse kick". What?

 

[skribs]

True that various schools/systems use the same terms differently but it is much easier to interpret 'turning kick' versus 'kick #3. Either way a person will likely have to adapt from school to school but it seems rather easy for a person to associate a number with a kick and never really understand that they are doing a roundhouse, for example. "Do kick #3" . Yes sir!. "Do a roundhouse kick". What?

The problem is when everything becomes numbered. You have Form #1-8. Kick #1-8. Punch #1-8. Punch Defense #1-5. Kick Defense #1-5. Hand Grab Defense #1-5. Jump Kick #1-6. It goes from remembering a list to remembering a table.

 

[Earl Weiss]

FWIW we use the org standard name for techniques(when there is a standard) The numbers / letters are only for combinations. Much easier to say "A" than " Jab , rear leg middle front snap kick putting foot down to the front , other hand high jab."

 

[skribs]

FWIW we use the org standard name for techniques(when there is a standard) The numbers / letters are only for combinations. Much easier to say "A" than " Jab , rear leg middle front snap kick putting foot down to the front , other hand high jab."

I have a couple of questions on this:

1. How often do you teach the concepts behind the combination instead of just going through it?
2. How often do you use variations of the combination to give other ideas of how to use it?
3. How often do you drill the combination against pads or a partner instead of doing the combination in line?

This is the main issue I have with the rote stuff at my school. We do freestyle combinations, we do drills, and we do sparring. But they don't often relate back to the combinations that we drill over and over for testing.

This is an issue I have with a lot of things in TKD, particularly KKW TKD, is there's a general disconnect between various components of training. I could open a school with a class focused on forms, a class focused on kicking and WT-sparring, and a class focused on traditional TKD self-defense techniques, and someone who took all 3 classes would assume that I am teaching 3 different martial arts.

 

[Earl Weiss]

I have a couple of questions on this:

1. How often do you teach the concepts behind the combination instead of just going through it?
2. How often do you use variations of the combination to give other ideas of how to use it?
3. How often do you drill the combination against pads or a partner instead of doing the combination in line?

.

1. There is no "Schedule" for this. However , with the very frst one it is shown and explained using an opponent.
2. We use variations ll the time. One rank requirement asks students to use the "Canned" combinations with an "Add on of their Choice. "
3. No "Schedule" However as part of the free sparring learning process instructors watching a student will say "Joe - do combination A" This is also done by seniors when sparring with Juniors. Also done with pad drills.

 

[skribs]

Were you able to come up with a list of names for the original list?

1. Repeating Kicks
2. Flick Kicks
3. Alternating Kicks
4. Double Kicks (or Triple, Quadruple, etc).