Clark Kent
<B>News Bot</B>
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2006
- Messages
- 7,128
- Reaction score
- 6
Effectiveness of Taijiquan and other CMAs
By lucidmist - Sun, 21 Oct 2007 18:42:22 GMT
Originally Posted at: Deluxe Forums
====================
Not slamming other martial arts or saying I'm a super fighter, but just opinions based on some experiences.
Anyway, I feel that there are effective stuff to be taken from Chinese Martial Arts, including Taiji. Only thing is, in most CMA schools now, especially Taiji schools, there are no training involving body-conditioning, aggressive sparring, real-life combat simulations, actual combat competitions, etc. It's difficult to become an actual fighter (or defend yourself) when training does not involve all these. The people who originally created all these martial arts (including Shaolin monks) used to fight wars and fought bandits and had their own gang wars. Yes, the Asian triads of today originated from these martial arts sects (except now it's all bombs and guns and knives and arson). So, the originators and former practitioners of these CMAs were experienced in combat situations, and frequently trained in tough and punishing environments. They definitely did not create CMAs or learn them for the sake of performance or flashiness. It's just that many CMA schools of today have watered-down training.
Put it this way.. if you train a guy in Western boxing, or Muay Thai, but only let him do drills against the air but do not train him in simulated fights or aggressive sparring, it's not likely that he's gonna be much of a fighter or defend himself effectively. Ok, please read the previous sentence carefully, it was not meant to slam boxing or Muay Thai. Just saying that Western Boxing and Muay Thai training churns out more effective fighters today than CMA schools because they really push the students in practical situations.
It's all about the training. The more realistic situations you're put in, the better you are. So really, it does not matter which art you're in. If you're currently in a CMA school, do what I do.. get friends to spar with you, full contact (with proper guidance of course). My friends and I don't really bother much with safety precautions or guidelines, we just throw ourselves in, sometimes 4 on 1, sometimes 1 on 1, just to let it be more realistic. We don't bother what style we're trained in. No such thing as judo guy gotta fight the judo way, or train or get attacked in a judo throw situation or whatnot (don't know judo, just illustrating). We just free-spar with each other, no matter who is studying what style. Of course, we do pull our kicks and punches. Just that, accidents happen and we do get broken noses and lips and arms and legs here and there. But you can use pads and guards. Plus we've known each other for years and really do not care if one of us accidentally hurt the other. But for safety's sake when you train, please take precautions. Also, do weight training, cardio training. All these will condition your body. If you're sluggish, or have a huge belly and poor stamina just because you believe your Chi will kill your enemy, erm, you should stay home. It's safer to cuss at your TV.
The above sparring is just our way of doing it, we're not experts so we just experiment (hopefully not killing ourselves while doing it harhar). We take what bits we remember from actual fights with strangers and incorporate into our sparring sessions. But it's best you get pros to help you out on sparring. Probably you'd get safer and more effective methods.
If you at least do sparring frequently, and do body conditioning, probably you might be able to defend yourself against an average person. However, do not brush Boxing or Muay Thai off by saying competition sports can't be used in real-life situations. Muay Thai was NOT created as a sport. These guys competing are trained to take hits. They're tough! They have actual fight experience against opponents who want to take them down. They're trained in strategies to avoid getting hurt and take opponents down. Taking hits is just part of it, obviously they wanna last longer by avoiding too many hits. But they ARE trained to take a world of hurt that you can't even begin to imagine. You'd be foolish if you start to think that your unpolished CMA can beat a competitive martial art just because you have more techniques. Your 1000 techniques have only been TRAINED against the air. Their straight punches have been blasted against ACTUAL opponents who are hard-trained. Don't be naive. Do you think in a real life situation, these aggressive competitors will fight like they were wearing gloves?? Heck, in training, they DON'T wear gloves. In a way, a Muay Thai or boxing competition IS real life. You have to take pain, and find the fastest way to take the other guy down. It doesn't mean it's safer when bound by rules. People get killed in the ring too! Looking at CMAs of today, even if you're trained in an effective technique, without practical experience or training, it's useless. Do some sparring at least. You can't beat a guy trained to compete, but at least you can defend yourself and run.
But look, if CMAs were useless, the people of the past wouldn't have been able to ward off rebels or bandits, or protect their families. Of course, maybe it's different when faced with a boxer's fast jabs. Probably Chen Wangting and Huang Fei Hong could fight off bandits but couldn't beat a boxer, I don't know, but I'm just saying it definitely makes a big difference when you've been put in sparring or combat situations.
Also, not saying that just because you spar with friends you'd definitely be a good fighter. Just remember, fighting with familiar people in familiar situations, you'd always feel safer and more calm. Against strangers, there is the added element of fear and a huge question mark of when one of them will pull a knife or gun. You don't know your attackers, you don't know what they're trained in, or what they're prepared to do. They could kill you. So, don't be complacent, don't be cocky. If you're trapped, I know it's easier said than done, but just stay calm even if they insist on fighting. If you're calm, you'll react to attacks better. Unless you're good at harnessing your rage, but you'll be blind to attacks (especially knives).
If you're trained in hard+soft Taiji, then at least you get some hard practice. However, train against one another by sparring, and work on pads and punching bags. If you're taking up entirely soft Taiji, all is not lost. Just work hard on your punches and kicks. For example, even though you practice the forms in a slow and soft fashion, take that as training your health and mental peace. But, whenever you can, practice the forms as if you were faced with an opponent trying to attack you. Best is when you can get someone to try all ways to attack you, after you're versed in using your forms fast and hard (not forgetting what the soft principle is for, that is, to evade or deflect). Really, you WILL need to work your punches and kicks out against heavy bags and pads. In the past, they may practice their forms, but they've all already gotten a strong base in power kicking and punching effectively. Experiment using knees and elbows in different situations, after you've evaded or deflected an attack. If you're training in hard-styled CMA, work on heavy bags and pads and SPAR! But don't spar like some CMA guys I know. They attack each other using fully swung punches and backfists and high or long-range flying kicks. Just imagine real situations, no one will attack you that way close-range. Try and spar with one another using straight punches and kicks. Your training may have taught you techniques, but that does not mean you're limited to react only using these techniques. Your training has conditioned your mind and alertness and stamina, use that and react with some common sense. In the few hundred techniques you learnt, there will definitely be effective ones meant for a certain close-range situation. If you spar and practice enough, you'll realize which are the ones without even having to figure it out. You'll just realize that you've been using it without knowing, because in an actual fight, the number of ways to attack and defend are varied but not many, and nothing flashy. It can get universal to all martial arts styles after awhile. Remember to throw in faking and trapping while sparring. Faking is really an important strategy not taught while practising forms. However, don't throw out flying kicks or long-range kicks entirely. I have been distracted before by an assailant while his partner took the pleasure of running and fly-kicking me in the back or the side of my face.
Just to illustrate... An effective technique from Taiji, called Qing Long Chu Shui (青龍出水
, actual follows the strategy used by JKD and many MMA styles today. Shift your weight back onto your rear leg so that you evade your opponent's punch simply by shifting, at the same time deflect and punch. There's no flowery or flashy move like high kick or spinning punch. Just straight to the point. Shift and evade, attack. And that's not the only technique, there are many others that follow very simple straightforward principles. Nothing flashy, nothing flowery, as mentioned by many people who don't really know CMAs say to brush CMAs off. Just forget it's a technique, but see it as a way to avoid an attack and take offense.
In a way, I feel that the media is responsible for the current situation of CMA. They portrayed heroes in movies with high-flying moves, and depict how flashy fights begin and end. New generation practitioners then learn CMAs based on what they've watched on TV or movies, expecting the same results and ridiculous effectiveness using the flashy moves. Subconsciously already influenced, they learn and practice the wrong way. And it spreads. From a commercialized teacher to student.
Blame the training of today, not the martial arts or style.
Read More...
------------------------------------
Defend.net Post Bot - CMA Feed
By lucidmist - Sun, 21 Oct 2007 18:42:22 GMT
Originally Posted at: Deluxe Forums
====================
Not slamming other martial arts or saying I'm a super fighter, but just opinions based on some experiences.
Anyway, I feel that there are effective stuff to be taken from Chinese Martial Arts, including Taiji. Only thing is, in most CMA schools now, especially Taiji schools, there are no training involving body-conditioning, aggressive sparring, real-life combat simulations, actual combat competitions, etc. It's difficult to become an actual fighter (or defend yourself) when training does not involve all these. The people who originally created all these martial arts (including Shaolin monks) used to fight wars and fought bandits and had their own gang wars. Yes, the Asian triads of today originated from these martial arts sects (except now it's all bombs and guns and knives and arson). So, the originators and former practitioners of these CMAs were experienced in combat situations, and frequently trained in tough and punishing environments. They definitely did not create CMAs or learn them for the sake of performance or flashiness. It's just that many CMA schools of today have watered-down training.
Put it this way.. if you train a guy in Western boxing, or Muay Thai, but only let him do drills against the air but do not train him in simulated fights or aggressive sparring, it's not likely that he's gonna be much of a fighter or defend himself effectively. Ok, please read the previous sentence carefully, it was not meant to slam boxing or Muay Thai. Just saying that Western Boxing and Muay Thai training churns out more effective fighters today than CMA schools because they really push the students in practical situations.
It's all about the training. The more realistic situations you're put in, the better you are. So really, it does not matter which art you're in. If you're currently in a CMA school, do what I do.. get friends to spar with you, full contact (with proper guidance of course). My friends and I don't really bother much with safety precautions or guidelines, we just throw ourselves in, sometimes 4 on 1, sometimes 1 on 1, just to let it be more realistic. We don't bother what style we're trained in. No such thing as judo guy gotta fight the judo way, or train or get attacked in a judo throw situation or whatnot (don't know judo, just illustrating). We just free-spar with each other, no matter who is studying what style. Of course, we do pull our kicks and punches. Just that, accidents happen and we do get broken noses and lips and arms and legs here and there. But you can use pads and guards. Plus we've known each other for years and really do not care if one of us accidentally hurt the other. But for safety's sake when you train, please take precautions. Also, do weight training, cardio training. All these will condition your body. If you're sluggish, or have a huge belly and poor stamina just because you believe your Chi will kill your enemy, erm, you should stay home. It's safer to cuss at your TV.
The above sparring is just our way of doing it, we're not experts so we just experiment (hopefully not killing ourselves while doing it harhar). We take what bits we remember from actual fights with strangers and incorporate into our sparring sessions. But it's best you get pros to help you out on sparring. Probably you'd get safer and more effective methods.
If you at least do sparring frequently, and do body conditioning, probably you might be able to defend yourself against an average person. However, do not brush Boxing or Muay Thai off by saying competition sports can't be used in real-life situations. Muay Thai was NOT created as a sport. These guys competing are trained to take hits. They're tough! They have actual fight experience against opponents who want to take them down. They're trained in strategies to avoid getting hurt and take opponents down. Taking hits is just part of it, obviously they wanna last longer by avoiding too many hits. But they ARE trained to take a world of hurt that you can't even begin to imagine. You'd be foolish if you start to think that your unpolished CMA can beat a competitive martial art just because you have more techniques. Your 1000 techniques have only been TRAINED against the air. Their straight punches have been blasted against ACTUAL opponents who are hard-trained. Don't be naive. Do you think in a real life situation, these aggressive competitors will fight like they were wearing gloves?? Heck, in training, they DON'T wear gloves. In a way, a Muay Thai or boxing competition IS real life. You have to take pain, and find the fastest way to take the other guy down. It doesn't mean it's safer when bound by rules. People get killed in the ring too! Looking at CMAs of today, even if you're trained in an effective technique, without practical experience or training, it's useless. Do some sparring at least. You can't beat a guy trained to compete, but at least you can defend yourself and run.
But look, if CMAs were useless, the people of the past wouldn't have been able to ward off rebels or bandits, or protect their families. Of course, maybe it's different when faced with a boxer's fast jabs. Probably Chen Wangting and Huang Fei Hong could fight off bandits but couldn't beat a boxer, I don't know, but I'm just saying it definitely makes a big difference when you've been put in sparring or combat situations.
Also, not saying that just because you spar with friends you'd definitely be a good fighter. Just remember, fighting with familiar people in familiar situations, you'd always feel safer and more calm. Against strangers, there is the added element of fear and a huge question mark of when one of them will pull a knife or gun. You don't know your attackers, you don't know what they're trained in, or what they're prepared to do. They could kill you. So, don't be complacent, don't be cocky. If you're trapped, I know it's easier said than done, but just stay calm even if they insist on fighting. If you're calm, you'll react to attacks better. Unless you're good at harnessing your rage, but you'll be blind to attacks (especially knives).
If you're trained in hard+soft Taiji, then at least you get some hard practice. However, train against one another by sparring, and work on pads and punching bags. If you're taking up entirely soft Taiji, all is not lost. Just work hard on your punches and kicks. For example, even though you practice the forms in a slow and soft fashion, take that as training your health and mental peace. But, whenever you can, practice the forms as if you were faced with an opponent trying to attack you. Best is when you can get someone to try all ways to attack you, after you're versed in using your forms fast and hard (not forgetting what the soft principle is for, that is, to evade or deflect). Really, you WILL need to work your punches and kicks out against heavy bags and pads. In the past, they may practice their forms, but they've all already gotten a strong base in power kicking and punching effectively. Experiment using knees and elbows in different situations, after you've evaded or deflected an attack. If you're training in hard-styled CMA, work on heavy bags and pads and SPAR! But don't spar like some CMA guys I know. They attack each other using fully swung punches and backfists and high or long-range flying kicks. Just imagine real situations, no one will attack you that way close-range. Try and spar with one another using straight punches and kicks. Your training may have taught you techniques, but that does not mean you're limited to react only using these techniques. Your training has conditioned your mind and alertness and stamina, use that and react with some common sense. In the few hundred techniques you learnt, there will definitely be effective ones meant for a certain close-range situation. If you spar and practice enough, you'll realize which are the ones without even having to figure it out. You'll just realize that you've been using it without knowing, because in an actual fight, the number of ways to attack and defend are varied but not many, and nothing flashy. It can get universal to all martial arts styles after awhile. Remember to throw in faking and trapping while sparring. Faking is really an important strategy not taught while practising forms. However, don't throw out flying kicks or long-range kicks entirely. I have been distracted before by an assailant while his partner took the pleasure of running and fly-kicking me in the back or the side of my face.
Just to illustrate... An effective technique from Taiji, called Qing Long Chu Shui (青龍出水
, actual follows the strategy used by JKD and many MMA styles today. Shift your weight back onto your rear leg so that you evade your opponent's punch simply by shifting, at the same time deflect and punch. There's no flowery or flashy move like high kick or spinning punch. Just straight to the point. Shift and evade, attack. And that's not the only technique, there are many others that follow very simple straightforward principles. Nothing flashy, nothing flowery, as mentioned by many people who don't really know CMAs say to brush CMAs off. Just forget it's a technique, but see it as a way to avoid an attack and take offense.In a way, I feel that the media is responsible for the current situation of CMA. They portrayed heroes in movies with high-flying moves, and depict how flashy fights begin and end. New generation practitioners then learn CMAs based on what they've watched on TV or movies, expecting the same results and ridiculous effectiveness using the flashy moves. Subconsciously already influenced, they learn and practice the wrong way. And it spreads. From a commercialized teacher to student.
Blame the training of today, not the martial arts or style.
Read More...
------------------------------------
Defend.net Post Bot - CMA Feed
