Dealing with Competitors

[MBuzzy]

We have a horse show photo shoot coming up this weekend. The problem is that the show organizer doesn't want to put us on official contract or "commit" to us being the "Official Show Photographer." My concern with this is that our only competitor in the area also shows up. I'm just having these visions of our tents both being set up facing each other and blunt objects being hurled back and forth.

So if you set up a shoot and a competitor also shows up - any tips on dealing with that?

Getting into such a niche market, I honestly had put no thought into competitors, dealing with them, or what to do with them. I never imagined that we would have one. It is quite different for portraits or wedding photography, where you are under contract and they come to get you - in the horse show business, you go and bid on or submit proposals to the show organizers and hope for the best. The organizers in this area are odd though, in that they won't do contracts, despite us coming to the show and doing all photography free of charge. Our profit comes when the competitors order pictures.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Be polite, be professional, even when they are neither. If things get ugly, talk to the organizer. You don't want to be seen as the "problem".

I'm doing a trade show this coming weekend with 1 of my competitors. Did a sorority shoot with another, for another. On the web side, 7 of my competitors are also clients of mine. It's an interesting dynamic.

I don't see myself as actually having any competition. Only I can do what I do, see what I see, and get the shots that I get. Others will get similar shots, some better, some worse, but I position myself as unique. Anyone can take a picture, but only I can give you -this- shot, -this- way.

Hope that helps.

 

[jks9199]

Hopefully, you can both be professional about it. I think there's enough business for both of you, and I don't blame the organizer for not wanting to do a contract with one of you to block the other guy.

You be professional, courteous, and friendly no matter what, and even keep enough of an eye on the other guy (within reason!) to be able to refer folks to him if he's more likely to have better shots because of position or whatever. Y'know, like if you realize your shots of a competitor were all blocked by a post, and you know the other guy was on the other side of that post... suggest they talk to him. After all, your goal is to make the customers happy -- and I'll tell you, I go back to businesses that refer me to the right place when I've got other needs. I'm sure I'm not alone in that...

 

[MBuzzy]

I hope so, this guy makes me nervous.

 

[jks9199]

I hope so, this guy makes me nervous.

The competitor or the promoter/organizer?

And what about him makes you nervous?

Like Bob said, I think there're probably enough shots to go around. If there is a huge disparity in the quality of the work, I'll assume it's in your wife's favor and she'll look better by comparison.

You're kind of describing the same sort of situation I run into a lot at work, where people won't share info that they have. Narcs don't tell gangs when they're buying from bangers, gangs won't tell narcs when they're doing deals, patrol won't pass the info on from their snitches, and that's before you get into different agencies... In the end, working together in a big environment lets everyone maximize their work and avoid wasted duplication of effort.

 

[MBuzzy]

What makes me the most nervous is the other guy. This is the guy that called us out of the blue and wanted to meet with no idea of what he wanted. We have never been able to make it work out, since he ignored my last e-mail. He finally responded a few days ago saying that he could meet this week. Now we know for sure that he is coming to the show because either his wife or daughter are competing.

My big concern here is that there really ISN'T enough business to go around. Our last show, we got 2 purchase orders, out of about 25 horses. This show has 36 horses, but two photographers. Now if you ask me, my wife's pictures are much better, I can see a huge difference in quality....but I'm biased. I'm pretty sure that we have a much more substantial set up, with a tent, drawings, we give away free carrots, etc etc....as far as I know, he just has a sign. The last show, he only shot 3 of the horses out of about 40.

So now we're wondering if it is a good idea to try to meet with him before the show and "tip him off" that we'll be there. His wife/daughter doesn't show until way later in the afternoon, so it is possible that he won't even show up until later and I can pretend like we didn't know that he'd be there. I'm not sure what our photographer's ethical responsibilities here are either!

Normally I'd agree that the more shots to get, the more it increased both of our chances by giving more options, but in this case, it is one rider at a time and plenty of chances to get lots of shots of every horse by one photographer. Plus, I'm not completely sure that I would want to refer people to him.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Do your thing, don't worry much about him, and let the quality of your work show.

Go to Walmart (or Target), and buy a couple 16x20 poster frames (the $6 ones).
You can fit 4 8x10 prints in each (just hot glue or tape the backs to hold the plastic frames on. Pick up a couple of the $7-8 easel style picture holders to hold them, and put 2-4 on your table. You can also hit Michaels/Joanns/Hobby Lobby/AC Moore and get some 11x14 frames (basic black works best IMO) and put a single 11x14 print in there, and use the same easels to display. Cost is minimal (If you need a good quality but low price print shop, PM me.)

Have a large size portfolio or 2 for people to flip through. By large size I mean 11x14 or better. 4x6's are for the amateurs who take snapshots.

I'm setting up 5 11x14's, 2 16x20'a and a couple 8x10's at the expo this coming weekend, overall cost of my table display is under $100.

You can also go all out and have 1 fully framed and matted print IF! you sell that package. I don't currently do framed prints so haven't.

Let people see the quality of what you do and let them decide for themselves who to shop with.

 

[MBuzzy]

Do your thing, don't worry much about him, and let the quality of your work show.

Go to Walmart (or Target), and buy a couple 16x20 poster frames (the $6 ones).
You can fit 4 8x10 prints in each (just hot glue or tape the backs to hold the plastic frames on. Pick up a couple of the $7-8 easel style picture holders to hold them, and put 2-4 on your table. You can also hit Michaels/Joanns/Hobby Lobby/AC Moore and get some 11x14 frames (basic black works best IMO) and put a single 11x14 print in there, and use the same easels to display. Cost is minimal (If you need a good quality but low price print shop, PM me.)

Have a large size portfolio or 2 for people to flip through. By large size I mean 11x14 or better. 4x6's are for the amateurs who take snapshots.

I'm setting up 5 11x14's, 2 16x20'a and a couple 8x10's at the expo this coming weekend, overall cost of my table display is under $100.

You can also go all out and have 1 fully framed and matted print IF! you sell that package. I don't currently do framed prints so haven't.

Let people see the quality of what you do and let them decide for themselves who to shop with.

Luckily, that is one place that I'm sure we have the guy creamed. We have a pretty huge set up for horse shows. A 10x10 sun screen/tent with 4 albums of portfolio photos in there and several other 8x10s on little easels, then two large a-frame displays outside the tent with about 40 of our other 8x10's displayed. No 11x14's for this show yet, still working on those. Most of those are actually sealed and mounted on foam board also (if you haven't done that, it really protects the pictures and makes them look good, plus they are a bit easier to handle when on foam board, I think!). Hopefully it isn't an issue just based on quality.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Be professional, courteous and concentrate on your work. Those would be my words of advice. Let the quality of your work shine through and be recognized for it!

Do not worry about the competition and just do your thing!

 

[MBuzzy]

So, the show went great, no problems and we've already sold a lot more than I expected.

I was sitting at the booth when someone came over and looked at the photos that were displayed outside on our A-Frame display. Then he came in and started looking through the portfolio albums. I did the normal, Hi can I help you, he said "Just seeing what you're about." Then I asked if he was a competitor and if he would like a free carrot for his horse? "No, I don't have a horse here." Then he asked if we were a show sponsor (at this point, I pretty much knew who he was), I said that we were and I asked him if he was with the organization sponsoring the show to which he said "No, not exactly." And kept looking at our albums....then says "Hmmm, carrots, interesting idea."

Finally, he said "So are all of these pictures from Ohio?" I said "No, actually the majority of them are from here in Florida, we just moved from Ohio though, may I ask how you knew that?"
him: "I have my sources."
me: "Oh, what are your sources?"
him: "Actually, your wife." [at this point, he STILL had not introduced himself or made ANY allusion to the fact that he was our competitor]
me: "I see."
him: [in a very dramatic tone] "I'm _______ _________"
me: "Oh! Great! Nice to meet you, I know that my wife has been trying to meet with you."

Now, that was 10 minutes into his coming over that he took to introduce himself. I knew that he'd be there, so I was kind of expecting it, but I really didn't expect the cryptic responses and stealthy "checking us out" attitude. I mean, we have a public booth, if you want to come look and ask questions, I'm obviously going to answer, competitor or not. The dude hung around for another 5-10 minutes waiting to talk to my wife and not saying anything (she was with another customer), then he took off. About 10 minutes later, after my wife had gone back to take pictures, he pulled up in his car, left it running, jumped out and gave me his card and left. Two hours later, he came back with his wife and her horse for her show time....and oddly enough didn't bring him camera or take a single picture. It is a public park, so he is perfectly welcome to, I just thought it was odd.

Later, while his wife was competing, he sat behind my wife while she was photographer and made a few snide comments and gave her "advice" on photography - advice which is probably perfectly fine for normal photography, but not generally accepted for horse photography. We have spent a lot of time shadowing professional equine photographers who shoot major international shows and have been doing solely equine photography for many many years. My wife didn't respond back to his comments and thanked him nicely for his advice. (advice, being things like "you need a different lense"; horse photography is supposed to be done with at AT LEAST 100mm, or more so that the horse is in the proper proportions, closer lenses tend to make the horse's head look large and give a bad perspective. Perfect for artsy stuff, but not so much for horse shows. Another one was "You need to move more, so that you get a 3/4 shot of every horse during the salute," which is again, great for normal photography or sports photography, but salute shots are almost always done from the side or front, generally the side, because horse photographers as a rule DO NOT move. Spectators are supposed to be quiet and sit still, photographer included - we're not even supposed to use flash, even inside, so that it doesn't spook the horse and cause it to throw the rider. Plus, the 3/4 shot of the salute shows the rider well, but not the horse, which is the point.)

So that was certainly one of the most odd encounters that I can remember. Not how I would have chosen to handle things, but to each his own.....Of course, it had the effect that he probably intended. Now I'm wondering what his set up is, what kind of camera he uses, etc. I kind of feel at a disadvantage because he was able to come over and dig into our entire operation and refused to answer any of my questions. Even after I would answer his questions and ask how he did it, he refused to say...

So, I guess we'll see what happens at the next show. I'm certainly curious what his set up is, but I'm debating whether I should go to a show that he's shooting just to check him out.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

One of my larger competitors shoots with a point-n-shoot, not an SLR. Shots are decent. I've seen crap done by a wedding photographer with a $6k camera body and 2k lens. It's more how you use what you've got that counts.

Here's my table from this past weekend. Next event, it'll be snazzier.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Roll with it and do not worry about it. Some people just like to be jerks!

Instead concentrate on your work and growing your business!

 

[jks9199]

Sounds like you don't have much to worry about with this guy...

Even I know that you don't want to be moving around a lot during a horse show! (Actually, it's from mountain biking that I know that... Lots of shared trails around here, and if you don't learn how to handle horses, you cause problems. It's easy... unless the riders specifically and directly tell you otherwise, stop as quick as you safely can, dismount, and let them pass you. Bikes freak horses out... And I bet a photographer running around during a show would, too!)