cultural issues

[lonecoyote]

I was born in Oklahoma, my family is from Oklahoma, and like a lot of people whose family has been there a while, there is a significant Native American link to my ancestry. I'm not a member of the Native American church, don't carry a card denoting what nation my ancestors belong to, and in general this isn't part of my daily life. Recently someone married into my family, this man is not a Native American, and yet, as kind of a hippie thing,I guess, he takes peyote, tries sweat lodges, drum circles, and even gets together with a bunch of other wackos and does a kind of ghost dance, hanging from hooks around a pole thing. I find myself offended. These things, though I don't do them, are real and sacred and honestly have nothing to do with this guy. I feel Its disrespectful for him to do them. I began to wonder, in light of this, if this is something we're doing to the various asian cultures from which the martial arts we practice spring. Kung Fu, Karate, etc. really don't belong to us culturally. How do asian practitioners feel about this? I started a thread a long time ago about how many people had visited the country of origin of the martial arts they practice. Very few people had. A few thought it was important to do so, but most didn't. You know, I don't want to steal anything from anybody, don't want to dishonor anyone's culture. Maybe some of the affectations we exhibit around our hobby of martial arts could be offensive. I practiced at one time a martial art, I won't say which one, that touted itself as a chinese system. We were about as chinese as a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. I'm not sure how I would feel about that if I were Chinese. What is your opinion? How do you all feel about this?

 

[Kacey]

I think it depends on how you approach the subject - if the adoption of cultural attitudes and habits is approached seriously and with respect, as most serious martial artists do, then I don't have a problem with it. If one adopts such attitudes and habits without respect, and more, without finding out something about the culture you are adopting from, then it is rude, yes.

From reading your post, it sounds like the man you are talking about is disrespectful of the activities he has adopted, that he does not take sacred activities seriously, and I certainly agree that his actions are discourteous, at best, and, it sounds like, self-serving. Many people have adopted the religion of a spouse wholeheartedly and with the intent, if not to practice the religion seriously, then at least to outwardly act in an appropriate fashion. If this man, as it sounds, has adopted only those facets of Native American beliefs and practices which tickle his fancy, then he is not serious, nor is he respecting those who truly believe in the importance of these rituals and the reasons they have been preserved all this time. You have my sympathy for his actions; the only suggestion I can make is that you, and anyone else who cares to do so, should take every opportunity to educate him about his adopted belief system, in the hopes that he will learn enough to change either his actions or his attitudes.

 

[bluemtn]

I'm like kacey- as long as you are respectful and understand the culture, it's ok. The guy you mentioned, sounded a bit uneducated in that area.

 

[stone_dragone]

I agree that those people who honestly want to learn about a culture, have a respect for things of that culture or perhaps even seek to one day be part of that culture will demonstrate their sincerity by partaking all the facets of the culture and not just the stuff that looks cool in the movies. Is he trying to learn any regional dialects? Does he study them before partaking or is he just a cultural tourist looking to get the peyote t-shirt?

For discussion's sake, is it possible that the resentment you have is a result of, deep down, feeling that you should be the one participating in these sacred activities instead of this "outsider" who is now in your family? Just a different point of view...

 

[Xue Sheng]

My wife is Chinese, I am not, I practice Tai Chi and Xingyi, and she practiced some sort of Kung fu when she was very young in China, but no longer does any martial art. We meant in America through mutual friends that had nothing to do with Martial Arts. I learned a lot about Chinese and Japanese culture long before I ever meant my wife. Her mother is a devout Buddhist and I learned a lot about Taoism. Buddhism and Shinto (Japanese) prior to ever meeting them.

Also Eastern religions tend to be inclusive as opposed to Western religions being exclusive. I do not know that much about Native American religions to know if they are inclusive or exclusive.

A good friend of mine is an American and a karate guy; his wife is Japanese and a black belt in Kendo, earned in Japan. And he learned a lot about Japan before ever meeting his wife. I tend to think the decor in his house is a little over the top, living room/dojo/gym/Shinto style shrine. But his wife greatly appreciates it. But he does not practice Shinto, he trains Karate.

It has been my experience that most Chinese appreciate what you know about their culture, and many are pleasantly surprised if you know anything about their history, but then again I am not taking Taoism and Buddhism rituals and exploiting them either. Nor do I practice either of them.

As for the Chinese view of Martial Arts, So far what I have encountered is that most seem to see no problem with Westerners and martial arts. But they start to take issue with those that claim to be professional if they are not. Also if someone claims they are master of many Chinese styles of martial arts. Example claiming to teach Shaolin, white crane, xingyi, bagua, yang tai chi, chen tai chi, eagle claw, wing chun, etc. This is generally where I hear the term "Flower fist" meaning can be very pretty to watch, no substance and no power and not real. But I do not feel that any of the Chinese I know are insulted by this they just do not take that person seriously. This by the way applies to Chinese that teach and claim mastery of several different styles as well.

As for Qi Gong, my wife has much training in Qi Gong from China and she is very amazed at the number of people that claim they do Qi Gong and or teach Qi Gong. Qi Gong is much harder than most people think. And if trained incorrectly can be dangerous.

Don't get me wrong, we have had cultural clashes from time to time, but it tends to be more of a misunderstanding of language than anything else.

However she does tell her family that I am martial art crazy. But on the flip side she found a Sanda teacher for me here and is looking for Xingyi people for me to train with in China and my mother-in-laws next door neighbor is a long time Yang style guy who is looking forward to doing push hands with me when I am there. And he has invited me to join his class in the park as well.

 

[Flatlander]

I guess the way I look at it is that the arts are borne out of cultural influences, but need not necessarily remain the domain of the culture of origin. However, that opinion can be tempered with the fact that I myself am a Heinz 57, and can claim no one cultural connection. So in that respect, I'm looking at this from the viewpoint of one who understands not the depth of cultural identification. For me, the path that interests me is the one that I'll follow.

 

[lonecoyote]

Thanks for all the thought provoking replies. I appreciate the food for thought.

 

[Grenadier]

The way I see it, as long as someone treats the culture with respect, most Asian folks won't be up in arms about someone in a foreign land practicing their traditions, whether it's martial arts-related, or not. Yes, there will be some Asian folks who don't like to see non-Asians practicing martial arts, but they are in a small minority, at best. The fact that many Karate-ka came from Okinawa or Japan and taught in many different countries. It wasn't really that long ago that Hirakazu Kanazawa was travelling all over the world, teaching Shotokan Karate, with the blessing of the JKA (before the falling out).

On the flip side of the coin, though, there are probably going to be some Asian folks disgusted when they see some of the schools out there in other countries that give their art a bad name. This isn't a cultural issue, though; it's a decency issue!