Courtesy

[Kacey]

In a technological society, it's easy to stay in contact with people... so why do so many people fail to do so? When I was a kid, if you weren't going to be somewhere you were expected to be, or you were going to be late, you called and let someone know; people don't do that as much today, even though it's a lot easier to get in touch with most people than it used to be.

You said "please", "thank you", and "excuse me" as appropriate; this also seems to be going the way of the dodo.

You addressed others - especially those older than yourself - with respect; I remember, when I turned about 20, being told by a family friend we'd known since I was 6, to call her by her first name - and I couldn't make myself do it; it seemed rude, since she was my parents' age.

There are countless other examples of courtesy that used to happen that no longer occur. So often, people claim that the reason they behave that way is "it's outdated" or "I don't have the time". Lazarus Long, a character of Robert Heinlein's, stated

Honorifics and formal politeness provide lubrication where people rub together. Often the very young, the untraveled, the naive, the unsophisticated deplore these formalities as "empty," "meaningless," or "dishonest," and scorn to use them. No matter how "pure" their motives, they thereby throw sand into machinery that does not work too well at best.

When did this sentiment become outdated? What is the real reason why courtesy is no longer considered important by so many people?

 

[theletch1]

It became outdated when so many parents decided it was time to be their children's friend first and parent second. As with most social skills they must be learned in the home and re-enforced out side of it. It's like the classic scenario of a parent coming to the dojo and saying "Little Johnny is a hellion. Teach him some discipline." Nope, not gonna do it. I'm more than happy to re-enforce what the parent is teaching at home but re-enforcing is all. Teach a child to call you by your title..."Mom" or "Dad" and not by your first name. Teach please and thank you at home and it will follow them into society. Be a parent and not a buddy. You brought a child into the world, not a pal. When the line between parent and friend gets blurred in the home it's much easier to treat total strangers as something less than human. "Familiarity breeds contempt" they say and not following a certain protocol in the home breeds contempt not only for the other members of the family but for the world at large.

 

[jks9199]

I have some of the neighbors I grew up with as "Mr. Jones" or "Mrs. Smith" that I'm still occasionally in contact with. I'm still, and I'm nearing 40, uncomfortable calling them "Bill" or "Barbara."

I've found that courtesy is most important with those we know best, and interact the most with. I can blow off a stranger's failing to say "excuse me" or screwing up my name. It's the folks that should know better or that I'm with all the time that irritate me.

And, as much as I agree with Jeff that part of the problem is parents being buds and not parents, it's also senior people or adults who are too concerned with not being standoffish or not being liked, so insist on being called by first names. I don't call my chief "Bob"; it's "Chief" or "Colonel." I'll, in private, call sergeants and even the captain by first name -- but in public settings, even the newest guy out of the academy is "Officer." It ain't our job to be buddies with folks, and formality helps to make that clear.

 

[exile]

What is the real reason why courtesy is no longer considered important by so many people?

Here's my theory, for what it's worth: we now construe the notion 'society' to mean a functioning interaction amongst anonymous parts. More and more, our 'communities' are virtual—a trend that has been going on since the disappearance of neighborhoods inhabited by people who knew each other, knew what was happening in their neighbors' (and neighbors' kids' and grandkids') lives. Our food comes from supermarkets filled with food from distribution warehouses, not farms, and whose staff often changes on a monthly basis; fast-food restaurants are the essence of anonymity, chain bookstores, furniture and home decor outlets and bookstores have replaced long-established family-owned single-store businesses... increasingly, the components of our world are frungible: interchangeable and replaceable. And the inhabitants of that world, outside our immediate families, have become frungible with it.

This fundamental process (it's way more than a tendency or a trend) is currently being ramped up out of control by the increasing dominance of the internet in economic and social transaction. Courtesy may well be the social lubricant between individuals, but individuals who are not individuated as significant parts of our own personal life-world are not individuals, but something more like robots with a pulse, which is how we are, increasingly, coming to see each other. And I can't help thinking it's going to get a lot more like that into the foreseeable future.

 

[theletch1]

Here's my theory, for what it's worth: we now construe the notion 'society' to mean a functioning interaction amongst anonymous parts. More and more, our 'communities' are virtual—a trend that has been going on since the disappearance of neighborhoods inhabited by people who knew each other, knew what was happening in their neighbors' (and neighbors' kids' and grandkids') lives. Our food comes from supermarkets filled with food from distribution warehouses, not farms, and whose staff often changes on a monthly basis; fast-food restaurants are the essence of anonymity, chain bookstores, furniture and home decor outlets and bookstores have replaced long-established family-owned single-store businesses... increasingly, the components of our world are frungible: interchangeable and replaceable. And the inhabitants of that world, outside our immediate families, have become frungible with it.

This fundamental process (it's way more than a tendency or a trend) is currently being ramped up out of control by the increasing dominance of the internet in economic and social transaction. Courtesy may well be the social lubricant between individuals, but individuals who are not individuated as significant parts of our own personal life-world are not individuals, but something more like robots with a pulse, which is how we are, increasingly, coming to see each other. And I can't help thinking it's going to get a lot more like that into the foreseeable future.

Ow, Ow, Ow! My brain...too many big words! I get what you're saying though. It's the keyboard commando scenario on a different level.

 

[martialartspeon]

That quote you have sums it up well I think

"Honorifics and formal politeness provide lubrication where people rub together. Often the very young, the untraveled, the naive, the unsophisticated deplore these formalities as "empty," "meaningless," or "dishonest," and scorn to use them. No matter how "pure" their motives, they thereby throw sand into machinery that does not work too well at best."

From what I see the entertainment and marketing of the day helps to promote this. The younger generation when approached with kindness and politness first asks themselves "What is this persons angle?"

 

[Big Don]

Common courtesy, like common sense, is none too common these days.

 

[Steel Tiger]

Here's my theory, for what it's worth: we now construe the notion 'society' to mean a functioning interaction amongst anonymous parts. More and more, our 'communities' are virtual—a trend that has been going on since the disappearance of neighborhoods inhabited by people who knew each other, knew what was happening in their neighbors' (and neighbors' kids' and grandkids') lives. Our food comes from supermarkets filled with food from distribution warehouses, not farms, and whose staff often changes on a monthly basis; fast-food restaurants are the essence of anonymity, chain bookstores, furniture and home decor outlets and bookstores have replaced long-established family-owned single-store businesses... increasingly, the components of our world are frungible: interchangeable and replaceable. And the inhabitants of that world, outside our immediate families, have become frungible with it.

This fundamental process (it's way more than a tendency or a trend) is currently being ramped up out of control by the increasing dominance of the internet in economic and social transaction. Courtesy may well be the social lubricant between individuals, but individuals who are not individuated as significant parts of our own personal life-world are not individuals, but something more like robots with a pulse, which is how we are, increasingly, coming to see each other. And I can't help thinking it's going to get a lot more like that into the foreseeable future.

I agree that this is a very big part of the disappearance of courtesy in society, but I also think there is another component which has grown in our social systems in the last 25 years. There is a staggering degree of selfishness nowadays. The first thought always seems to be, "What do I get from it?" With this attitude and disconnected communication it is not surprising that there is a basic lack of common courtesy.

I have often thought that fast food stores would not need their strict policies on courtesy if patrons treated the staff with a little more respect and courtesy. But it comes back to an expectation of quality service no matter how badly one behaves. Selfish behaviour begets selfish behaviour. Add to that a general anonymity and, well, you have the majority of modern society.

 

[Kacey]

Here's my theory, for what it's worth: we now construe the notion 'society' to mean a functioning interaction amongst anonymous parts. More and more, our 'communities' are virtual—a trend that has been going on since the disappearance of neighborhoods inhabited by people who knew each other, knew what was happening in their neighbors' (and neighbors' kids' and grandkids') lives. Our food comes from supermarkets filled with food from distribution warehouses, not farms, and whose staff often changes on a monthly basis; fast-food restaurants are the essence of anonymity, chain bookstores, furniture and home decor outlets and bookstores have replaced long-established family-owned single-store businesses... increasingly, the components of our world are frungible: interchangeable and replaceable. And the inhabitants of that world, outside our immediate families, have become frungible with it.

This fundamental process (it's way more than a tendency or a trend) is currently being ramped up out of control by the increasing dominance of the internet in economic and social transaction. Courtesy may well be the social lubricant between individuals, but individuals who are not individuated as significant parts of our own personal life-world are not individuals, but something more like robots with a pulse, which is how we are, increasingly, coming to see each other. And I can't help thinking it's going to get a lot more like that into the foreseeable future.

I think that that's partially correct, and certainly I think that it's adding to the problem; however, this particular trend has been going on longer than widespread use of computers.

These 2 quotes are attributed, variously, to Socrates, to Aristotle, and to others - but they make the point I'm trying to make, that this problem has been around for a while, at least in some people's estimation:

The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for
authority, they show disrespect to their elders.... They no longer
rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents,
chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their
legs, and are tyrants over their teachers.

The young people of today think of nothing but themselves. They have
no reverence for parents or old age. They are impatient of all
restraint. They talk as if they alone knew everything and what passes
for wisdom with us is foolishness with them. As for girls, they are
forward, immodest and unwomanly in speech, behaviour and dress.

Nonetheless, I feel that this problem has escalated beyond what was seen in previous times... except when civilization is at risk; when the rules of civilized behavior go out the window, it is generally a poor sign - it means, often, that individuals are putting their own needs and preferences above that of the civilization, and that is concerning to me.

The next question becomes, then, what (if anything) can - or should - be done about it?

 

[Marginal]

I agree that this is a very big part of the disappearance of courtesy in society, but I also think there is another component which has grown in our social systems in the last 25 years. There is a staggering degree of selfishness nowadays. The first thought always seems to be, "What do I get from it?" With this attitude and disconnected communication it is not surprising that there is a basic lack of common courtesy.

I have often thought that fast food stores would not need their strict policies on courtesy if patrons treated the staff with a little more respect and courtesy. But it comes back to an expectation of quality service no matter how badly one behaves. Selfish behavior begets selfish behavior. Add to that a general anonymity and, well, you have the majority of modern society.

The concept of the customer is king does seem to drive this a lot. If you make a big enough stink, most places will eventually cave since not everyone's a jerk so they can eat the loss be it in time, money, self respect etc.

Structure a society around the customer service ideal, and you have a framework that provides little but positive reinforcement to discourteous behavior.

That aside, etiquette changes over time. What's considered rude from one generation to the next doesn't always carry across to the next. Arranging dates with a girl's father for example. Not exactly something that society needs to function. Not all rules of etiquette are good and pure and should always be upheld.

 

[JBrainard]

I think that that's partially correct, and certainly I think that it's adding to the problem; however, this particular trend has been going on longer than widespread use of computers.

These 2 quotes are attributed, variously, to Socrates, to Aristotle, and to others - but they make the point I'm trying to make, that this problem has been around for a while, at least in some people's estimation:

Nonetheless, I feel that this problem has escalated beyond what was seen in previous times... except when civilization is at risk; when the rules of civilized behavior go out the window, it is generally a poor sign - it means, often, that individuals are putting their own needs and preferences above that of the civilization, and that is concerning to me.

The next question becomes, then, what (if anything) can - or should - be done about it?

I found this post very interesting, although I think that it is neither here nor there as far as the OP goes. As you stated, your quotes go back as far as the time(s) of Socrates and Aristotle. Since time immemorial parents have thought that thier children have worse manners than they had as a child themselves. Maybe it's not so much as a growing trend as it is simply a natural reaction that most if not all parents have towards thier children.
Every generation thinks that the world is going to hell in a handbasket. Well, the world hasn't ended yet.
Just a thought.

 

[Steel Tiger]

That aside, etiquette changes over time. What's considered rude from one generation to the next doesn't always carry across to the next. Arranging dates with a girl's father for example. Not exactly something that society needs to function. Not all rules of etiquette are good and pure and should always be upheld.

This is very true. It also differs between cultures and subsets of cultures. A very good example of this was the experience of one of my teachers at university. He had come to Australia from Chicago via Indonesia. In Chicago he was addressed as Dr (he had a PhD), in Jakharta he was addressed as Professor and with a great deal of respect, in Canberra he was addressed by his first name. In all three places he was treated with courtesy and respect, its just that in Australia it is considered more courteous to use someone's name, if you know it.

Chatting away to you guys from other countries I notice these little variations often. It makes me chuckle sometimes to see the different things that people find offensive.

I agree, though, that there are some elements of courtesy that should never be revived, but the variation across the generations should not come at the cost of simple, basic courtesy.