"Core" techniques for NHB fighting

[Edmund BlackAdder]

What do you see as the "core" techniques of a good NHB fighter?

 

[Hand Sword]

Takedowns. They seem to be very good at doing it, repeatedly.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Seems to be a good one though. Once you have your opponent down, you can better control them. The small amount of rolling I've done has ended quickly once we hit the mat.

 

[RoninPimp]

Takedowns are just one aspect of modern MMA. You basically need skills in standup, clinch, and ground. The more the better.

Standup is some variation of Thai boxing or boxing. Some guys don't kick much, some do a lot. You even see the occasional high kick or spinning number. Basic freestyle and folkstyle wrestling takedowns happen from here too.

Clinch is, because of the upright nature due to striking, is heavily influenced by Greco Roman wrestling, but with out the lower body restrictions. Thai boxing is also a big influence with all its knees and elbows.

Ground is pretty much BJJ without the gi and with strikes.

The fighters skill preference depends a lot on his attributes, background, and coaching.

 

[Hand Sword]

I hear Ya! The more well rounded the better. I was just evaluating a specific thing that I've seen. They seem to do takedowns repeatedly, with ease, even against good sprawlers, indicating a great ability. Their stand up and clinch, and ground fighting, IMHO leaves a lot to be desired. They are no better or worse than anyone else.

 

[RoninPimp]

I hear Ya! The more well rounded the better. I was just evaluating a specific thing that I've seen. They seem to do takedowns repeatedly, with ease, even against good sprawlers, indicating a great ability. Their stand up and clinch, and ground fighting, IMHO leaves a lot to be desired. They are no better or worse than anyone else.

-Huh? Who are "they" and "anyone else"?

 

[Hand Sword]

NHB fighters. Anyone else is anyone else. Boxers and even street fighters box or attempt to box better, and more often. Thai boxers are better at what they do. If you watch the fights, they only Knee and elbow occasionally, after getting screemed at by their corner for minutes. Grappling? How many fights are seen where someone is pinned for 15 minutes, and nothing being done? I'm a huge fan of NHB fights, but, sometimes it's frustrating as hell to watch. How many times is someone submitted by a slow, long in getting it done, Triangle choke? The same submissions over and over. where are the reversals? Where are the defenses? Real grapplers do these things constantly. MMA guys, with the exception of a few, do this stuff average at best. Jacks of all trades, masters of none, basically.

 

[Edmund BlackAdder]

There are going to be limits to any non-specialist's "depth of knowledge". It's why they say "Learn to punch, see boxing. Learn stick, talk to the FMAers, etc."

So, based on RP's post, there are 3 zones: standup, clinch, and ground

Are there "standard" techniques (ie: every good fighter should have them) and are there ones that work in all the zones?

 

[Hand Sword]

Yeah, but, they're probably illegal.

 

[Edmund BlackAdder]

Yeah, but, they're probably illegal.

heh. Lets keep that one in the other thread.

I'm actually serious here. (mark the calendar, EB's serious.)

I've been watching Spike's UFC shows the last few weeks, and found it an interesting watch. Hence the questions I popped up.

 

[Hand Sword]

Your're right! Im a fan of this stuff too. I think counters are what every fighter should have. Standing and on the ground.

 

[green meanie]

So, based on RP's post, there are 3 zones: standup, clinch, and ground

Are there "standard" techniques (ie: every good fighter should have them) and are there ones that work in all the zones?

This is my opinion based on what few arts I've had the opportunity to train in. By no means is any of this meant to imply that other arts don't have the same or possibly better things to offer. I can only comment on arts I've seen firsthand and studied. That being said:

Stand up: Boxing's great. Striking skills are a must. Some decent kicking skills are also a good thing to have but I think a person can have a pretty good run without them so long as they have decent footwork and some good striking skills. I think good takedown defense, i.e. sprawling etc. needs to fall into this category too. You can't go to work if you can't stay on your feet.

Clinch: Judo and / or Wrestling for an understanding of how to be in control during the tie ups and Muay Thai and / or Kenpo are good choices for learning how to make good use of the elbows and knees to strike in close quarter conditions like this.

Ground: Brazilian and Sombo are excellent choices for learning good position and how to submit while on the ground. I think Wrestling's a great addition here as well as quite often their escapes and reversals are sometimes underestimated and overlooked.

 

[Andrew Green]

So, based on RP's post, there are 3 zones: standup, clinch, and ground

Yes, you can think of it in terms of how you are able to move.

If you are seperated that is one type of movement, you'r free to move in and out, sideways, can pull away at any time, move in at anytime, you are rellying on your footwork.

In a clinch it is not just footwork, but upper body control, balance and awareness of strikes and takedowns.

On the ground you are controlling the whole body (or being controlled) you use your weight and fight for dominate positions, submissions become a issue. and movement is more restricted, esspecially on the bottom.

Are there "standard" techniques (ie: every good fighter should have them)

Yes, But everyone will do them slightly different, and there are many variations on them.

So when I say "Sprawl" as a fundamental technique, it is more of a collection of techniques and concepts that achieve a similar goal.

Anyways, as a starter list:

Jab
Cross
Hook
Uppercut
Front kick
Round kick
Knees in clinch
Shoot (change levels, penetrate)
Double leg - Turn the corner
Double leg - trip
Single Leg - Run the pipe
Single leg - trip
Sprawl
Pummel for underhooks
Whizzer
Controling the head (Muay Thai clinch)
Escaping head control
Bodylock - trip
Escape bodylock
A couple guard passes
A couple sweeps
mount escape - bridge & roll
mount - elbow escape
sidemount - elbow escape
sidemount - get to knees
Mounted - Defend strikes
Sidemounted - Defend strikes
In guard - Posture up and strike
In guard - Avoiding submission
Bottom guard - Stand up
Turtled - Pull Guard
TUrtled - Stand up
Turtled - Peak out
Top turtle -Keep control / strike
top turtle - tak back
Back mount - Rear Naked choke
Back mounted - escape


Now I'm just doing this off the top of my head and it is far from complete, but should give you a general idea.

[/quote]
and are there ones that work in all the zones?[/quote]

I think that depends on how you define a technique. I can knee from seperated, clinched or on the ground, but the set up and tactics are going to be rather different.

Those 3 zones change how you can move and what you have to worry about. One thing that is very important in MMA, and other systems is that the actual technique is just the endpoint, it's easy and anyone can do them. What makes a person a good fighter is the ability to set that technique up so that it can be used. And as the variables change in different positions, so must what you need to do to set something up. But the general technique might be in all, might even look similar, but there will be differences in how it is used and how it is set up.

 

[RoninPimp]

NHB fighters. Anyone else is anyone else. Boxers and even street fighters box or attempt to box better, and more often. Thai boxers are better at what they do. If you watch the fights, they only Knee and elbow occasionally, after getting screemed at by their corner for minutes. Grappling? How many fights are seen where someone is pinned for 15 minutes, and nothing being done? I'm a huge fan of NHB fights, but, sometimes it's frustrating as hell to watch. How many times is someone submitted by a slow, long in getting it done, Triangle choke? The same submissions over and over. where are the reversals? Where are the defenses? Real grapplers do these things constantly. MMA guys, with the exception of a few, do this stuff average at best. Jacks of all trades, masters of none, basically.

-The MMA fighters have gotten progressively better. Some are really good like Chuck Liddell. In the fights I've seen, the guys knee and elbow a lot. All the high tech submissions and sweeps get exponentially hafrder when striking is involved.

 

[Rook]

Often there are referances to a "big four" arts that NHB fighters often, but not always, learn.

Boxing
Muay Thai
Western Wrestling
BJJ

Some people the core skills largely come from these arts and most NHB fighters have a high degree of competence in each of them.