cops work gets easier by the year

[Archangel M]

Because it looks like all folks want us to do is drive around the neighborhood or sit at the coffee shops.

http://www.policeone.com/legal/arti...ines-spotlight-on-Philly-police-foot-pursuits

PHILADELPHIA — Raymond Pelzer was playing dice on a known West Philadelphia drug corner when two police officers approached him.

Pelzer, 25, handed over his identification but ran off before the officers learned that he was wanted for a probation violation.

Moments later, an officer cornered Pelzer in a yard. Pelzer refused to show his hands, appeared to be searching in his waistband, and eventually thrust out his hand while holding a cell phone, according to court records.
Officer Marvin Burton fired once, killing Pelzer, who was not armed.

Three separate investigations - by the District Attorney's Office, the police Internal Affairs Division, and the Firearms Discharge Review Board - all ruled the 2006 shooting justifiable.

But lawyers for Pelzer's family say there was no need to chase him through the neighborhood's alleys - Pelzer posed no immediate threat, and officers knew that he lived nearby.

In a federal lawsuit, they argued that Pelzer would be alive today if the Police Department had "commonsense" guidelines for foot pursuits, which they say are "strong in emotion, weak in tactics."

A federal judge recently said that argument could have merit before a jury.

I was going to post a long rant about this, but a poster over at one of my favorite cop sites Police One said it all.


You know, police work is really getting easier. We should all be happy. We can't search cars anymore. We can't execute a warrant without announcing presence. We can't arrest drunks based on phone tips. We can't deploy a taser to the chest. We can't pursue in a car or on foot. We can't yell at people or hurt their feelings. Marijuana's legal now.

I say we all find the closest Starbucks and grab a seat. If someone comes in to rob the place, just say, "Sir, please don't.", and if he ignores you, it's just because he has a learning disability and needs counseling, so let him go. Just drink your coffee, take a deep breath, and relax, brothers. We'll all be going home safe and unsued when we don't have to do anything, and that's what really matters.

 

[Sukerkin]

Unrelated to the issue of the OP, or at least only tangential to it - how can you have a known 'drug corner'?

Surely if it's 'known' then the police know too and therefore it should cease to be a place of illegal activity in short order?

 

[jks9199]

Unrelated to the issue of the OP, or at least only tangential to it - how can you have a known 'drug corner'?

Surely if it's 'known' then the police know too and therefore it should cease to be a place of illegal activity in short order?

"Known drug corners" or open air drug markets exist through several elements coming together. You have a group of people who want to make money without working hard -- or support their own habit. You have others who want to obtain their drugs. And you have a community that tolerates their presence -- and is often openly hostile to law enforcement either generally or specifically on the issue of drug abuse. Add departments and courts that can easily demoralize the cops who actually want to do something about it... See the comments Archangel copied for the type of attitude that's easily bred. Or the fact that I worked something on the order of 20 hours yesterday alone, and probably another 20 or more over the last week on one case (yes, I work several cases at a time. Do the math...) to have the magistrate basically tell the guy I arrested with a fair quantity of weed for distribution how he can get off the charges. And, in many areas, patrol is just overwhelmed with calls for service and seldom have much time to be proactive.

Crime will always be with us, and often all cops can do is make a very temporary dent. Especially in drug crime.

 

[Archangel M]

Sometimes the constant schizophrenia we deal with..."DO SOMETHING ABOUT CRIME THATS WHAT WE PAY YOU FOR" then perhaps in the same breath "YOU RIGHTS TRAMPLING BROWNSHIRTS! YOU CAN"T TO THAT!" Get's demoralizing after a while. Now don't get me wrong, I know full well how important judicial oversight on the powers of police is. Our Constitutional rights trump the ease with which we can solve crime. But the constant moving of the goalposts always seems to be moving further away rather than getting any nearer.

 

[MJS]

Common sense guidelines for foot pursuits? Ummm...how about some common sense guidelines for the *******s who run from the cops!!!! Yeah yeah I know, I know...why bother chasing them, when you can just wait for another day? But what happens when that other day comes and they do the same thing? The cops may as well not do ****, and just hide, because as always, they're damned if they do, damned if they dont.

Has this piece of **** just stayed put, whats the worst that would've happened to him....get hauled in for the VOP, maybe spent the night, maybe payed a fine, but nooooo...he runs, makes suspicious movements, pulls something that could easily be mistaken for a weapon.

The lawyers in this case are just as bad as the dirtbag who ran. They claim he posed no immediate threat....Umm...how do you figure? He refused to show his hands, he ran...but he wasn't a threat. LOL, yeah, alrighty then.

 

[Drac]

Surely if it's 'known' then the police know too and therefore it should cease to be a place of illegal activity in short order?

I cannot recall the hours I spent observing a location where drug sales have been reported..The activity will cease as long as there is a police presence, and as soon as we move to another location they return.Maybe if the departments didnt have undercover units that are basically a police unit sans the black and white color scheme and lightbar we might have more luck..

 

[Sukerkin]

Thanks for the professional insights, gentlemen :bows:.

I can well see how immensely frustrating it must be to have to work under such a regime. To be clear, I wasn't criticising the police on the matter of 'known' crime spots but rather precisely the back-to-front sort of oversight that you fellows pointed out.

As to the OP, aye, under the circumstances it is hardly surprising that the felon ended up on the wrong end of a bullet. He might as well have worn a sign saying "Please shoot me now!".

 

[Drac]

Common sense guidelines for foot pursuits? Ummm...how about some common sense guidelines for the *******s who run from the cops!!!! Yeah yeah I know, I know...why bother chasing them, when you can just wait for another day? But what happens when that other day comes and they do the same thing? The cops may as well not do ****, and just hide, because as always, they're damned if they do, damned if they dont.

Has this piece of **** just stayed put, whats the worst that would've happened to him....get hauled in for the VOP, maybe spent the night, maybe payed a fine, but nooooo...he runs, makes suspicious movements, pulls something that could easily be mistaken for a weapon.

The lawyers in this case are just as bad as the dirtbag who ran. They claim he posed no immediate threat....Umm...how do you figure? He refused to show his hands, he ran...but he wasn't a threat. LOL, yeah, alrighty then.

Yeah it is a puzzlement..Responded to a gun call with the locals as I was closer that the rest of the units. It started of as a verbal arguement between 2 adults and suddenly escalated to a weapons call..He actually tried to exit his vehicle when he finally stopped with something in his hand. I had cover behind a utility pole and yelled along with the locals officers to " Get back in your ****ing car". He complied and thew the object out the window..Upon closer inspection it was a lever type door knob..If he had pointed it at me would I have shot??..You bet your ***..

 

[jks9199]

"Known drug corners" or open air drug markets exist through several elements coming together. You have a group of people who want to make money without working hard -- or support their own habit. You have others who want to obtain their drugs. And you have a community that tolerates their presence -- and is often openly hostile to law enforcement either generally or specifically on the issue of drug abuse. Add departments and courts that can easily demoralize the cops who actually want to do something about it... See the comments Archangel copied for the type of attitude that's easily bred. Or the fact that I worked something on the order of 20 hours yesterday alone, and probably another 20 or more over the last week on one case (yes, I work several cases at a time. Do the math...) to have the magistrate basically tell the guy I arrested with a fair quantity of weed for distribution how he can get off the charges. And, in many areas, patrol is just overwhelmed with calls for service and seldom have much time to be proactive.

Crime will always be with us, and often all cops can do is make a very temporary dent. Especially in drug crime.

Let me expand on the community issue...

My current assignment means I don't drive a cop car. Or anything that looks like one. Still, when we go into some communities, we're burned (identified) within minutes. And it's amazing how the kids wave and call out to us... They like us, right? Oh, about these communities... One was the site of a recent huge service project where people came in and picked up trash and painted fences and the like. (Don't ask me why the folks who LIVE THERE couldn't do that stuff routinely...) I've had arrested subjects tell me -- and I believe them! -- that to buy drugs there, you just have to "find a black guy and ask." When I heard about the "service opportunity", my first reaction was that it was a "homicide opportunity."

Oh, and those "friendly kids?" It's purely a coincidence that they're big brothers, uncles and the like, just happen to be dealers, right? Who magically vanish as the little kids start waving and calling out... And if you buy that, I'll offer you a great deal on the Washington Monument.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Unrelated to the issue of the OP, or at least only tangential to it - how can you have a known 'drug corner'?

Surely if it's 'known' then the police know too and therefore it should cease to be a place of illegal activity in short order?

You've never been to some urban areas in the US where they sling crack three blocks from the police department, in broad daylight.

In fact, most folks would never truly understand how it can be like that until they actually go to those places.........then it's 'Oh, I see!' followed very quickly by 'Now get me the hell out of here!'

 

[Sukerkin]

My word! It's a sad day when movie nightmares become reality.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Sometimes the constant schizophrenia we deal with..."DO SOMETHING ABOUT CRIME THATS WHAT WE PAY YOU FOR" then perhaps in the same breath "YOU RIGHTS TRAMPLING BROWNSHIRTS! YOU CAN"T TO THAT!" Get's demoralizing after a while. Now don't get me wrong, I know full well how important judicial oversight on the powers of police is. Our Constitutional rights trump the ease with which we can solve crime. But the constant moving of the goalposts always seems to be moving further away rather than getting any nearer.

That's the long and the short of it.........'You need to do something about the drugs in my neighborhood'.........followed by 'Why are you harassing my son (who's dealing drugs in my neighborhood).'

 

[Sukerkin]

That kind of dichotomy is most certainly a position I sympathise with. For people to demand you do your job, only to complain because you are doing your job, is far from rational on their part.