Cops: Above the Law???

[Cryozombie]

This is purely theoretical and hypothetical, but its amazing what you think of when you are bored...

Assume a guy is speeding. Cop sees him, pulls out behind him, chases him down, runs his plates, then lights up his cherrys and pulls him over.

The cop is ALSO guilty of speeding. Why is it OK for him to break the law??? Because he has a badge? Ok... theorectically if its ok for him to do so (speed to catch a speeder) then in court, shouldnt the defense that you were speeding to catch another speeder that you intended to place under citizens arrest be just as valid??? And if not, than isn't it true that the cops are above the law?

I started thinking about this while standing in line outside a local Venue in chicago... a cop came and told everyone in line to move... someone commented about it, and I said "Yea, Damn the man keepin us down!" and the first guy said "Dont say that too loud, the cops around here are likely to shoot you for it!" To which I replied "with what? Guns are ILLEGAL in chicago!" Now of course I was JOKING, but i got to thinking about it, if owning Guns are illegal, and by criminalizing guns you have effectivly removed them from the hands of the criminals (as the Mayor MUST believe, since he is the one who made that law) then why does law enforcement need them??? Now of course, I know the truth, which is, the criminals STILL have them, only the law abiding citizens gave them up... But the cops get an "exception" to that law, and i started thinking... the only "reasonable" reason I could see is that cops can ignore the laws that everyone else has to follow is so they can PREVENT and PUNISH crime, and that led to the speeding question... and the conclusion that it should be ok for us too if we are trying to prevent crime... Ugh... my head hurts.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Actually...you have some interesting points.

I recomend heavy medication.

Seriously though...

Lets use the 'red light' as the idea.

Red light means stop. Cop pulls up to red light...turns on his flashers, and drives thru. Once thru, off goes the lights. Guy behind him sees car in front moving, so goes. Cop pulls to the side, lets guy pass, then turns flashers back on, and pulls the guy over...why?

Because he ran a red light.


Heres another....I followed a cop (who was going at a few mph above speed limit...but I could legally keep up. Light turns red, he hits flashers, n keeps going. I of course stop. I watch as he turns lights off after he is thru, and keeps on going. No hurry, same speed. This happens for the next 2 lights. He then turns off.

Where was he going?

HQ. Yup. Couldn't wait for the red lights, had to use his 'power' to run em, so he could get back to the office at shift end.

Warning - Cops in West Seneca NY love to do this crap. Happens at least 1 outta every 5 times I see em.

Someone should write em some tickets.....

 

[Ceicei]

Originally posted by Technopunk
This is purely theoretical and hypothetical, but its amazing what you think of when you are bored...

You must be RRRRRREEEEEAAAALLLLYYY getting bored. Go out and punch some heavy bags....

:shrug:

- Ceicei

 

[Nightingale]

I've had at least two California Deputy Sheriffs (one Orange County, one Los Angeles County) tell me that they regularly use the carpool lane when driving solo... and when pulled over, use the "badge pass"

 

[Seig]

And in other states, if one cop from one jurisdiction sees a cop from another jurisdiction doing something, they take great delight in ticketing/arresting them.

 

[Disco]

An officer/deputy doing something illegal (running lights in non emergency, speeding or some other dumb things), take down the car number - location - date and time. Then lodge a complaint straight to the chief or sheriff. You saw what happened when the proliferation of video tapes started popping up. Departments started to reign in their members.

I think every area of the country should have what N.Y C. has/had. Don't know if it's still active but I think it still is. It was called "the civilian complaint review board" and they looked at complaints from the general public about police conduct. Valid complaints did get action. Somebody has to police the police, otherwise like anybody else, some will abuse the power and position. We are dealing with human beings and for the most part, the vast majority of officers in this country are good, decent law abiding people that are asked by society to perform a thankless job.

 

[jeffkyle]

Originally posted by nightingale8472
"badge pass"

I like that. Very catchy! LOL! :rofl:

 

[Nightingale]

Originally posted by jeffkyle
I like that. Very catchy! LOL! :rofl:

the cops' words, not mine, but very appropriate. lol.

 

[Phil Elmore]

Police officers are just people, like everyone else. Some are good, and some are bad. Some abuse the power and advantages offered by their position, and some don't.

 

[OULobo]

Originally posted by Sharp Phil
Police officers are just people, like everyone else. Some are good, and some are bad. Some abuse the power and advantages offered by their position, and some don't.

The question is which "some" is more. If there are more abusers then we might start to think that there is a trend associated with the "power" to break the law and avoid punishment.

 

[Cryozombie]

Originally posted by Ceicei
You must be RRRRRREEEEEAAAALLLLYYY getting bored. Go out and punch some heavy bags....

:shrug:

- Ceicei

HEH HEH. Thats hard to do sitting at my desk at work... Believe me, If i could convince my boss we needed one, (Oh and I have tried) i would be doing just that...

But seriously... By no means did I intend for this thread to be a "cop bashing" thread, merely a hypothetical excercise in "What if we used the same logic/reasoning" that is used to excuse cops from breaking the law?

 

[Ceicei]

Originally posted by Technopunk
HEH HEH. Thats hard to do sitting at my desk at work... Believe me, If i could convince my boss we needed one, (Oh and I have tried) i would be doing just that...

But seriously... By no means did I intend for this thread to be a "cop bashing" thread, merely a hypothetical excercise in "What if we used the same logic/reasoning" that is used to excuse cops from breaking the law?

Try getting your boss into MA and he might consider a punching bag to use during breaks...

Logic? And use that same logic to excuse "bad MA instructors" who like to cut corners and sniff green?

I suppose all of us are entitled to idle moments....

- Ceicei

 

[brianhunter]

Okay....there are officers that speed, run lights, "badge out", whatever. If you do call in DO get a date/time/car. What is not an emergency to you might be to someone else. Do you have a police scanner? Do you know if the cop was en route to anything? If there is a domestic violence in progress and an open line to the beat up wife Im not going to run lights and sirens unless Im going through an intersection...will I speed? YES, Will I haul *** getting there? YES Im not gonna tip off the offender to lock the doors prep the wife for her testimony and have her wash off her face in the bathroom while they hear us screeching lights and sirens in front of their house.......common sense would dictate that. Another example would be running fast going through an intersection then slowing down or stopping. I have been dispatched to an officer in trouble..man with a gun...etc.. and thats usually for any officer close. Some guys are closer get there first and I am disreguarded...should I keep running like that? no I was disreguarded, do I feel bad because people dont understand why I was using lights and speeding the stopped all of a sudden? You bet! But I try to serve and protect, I think if it where your mom/sister/wife/daughter in jeapordy you would want me there as fast as I could be come hell or high water.
There are people out there that abuse anything...kenpo/cops/bank accounts/privlagese whatever but I think as people we are smart enough to know we dont judge the few by the whole everything I do is recorded/taped/monitored/logged I have no problems with my actions, if you see something get a date time car and call a supervisor, most of the time that supervisor will research it and find out what that officer was doing and give you a reasonable explaination. I had a buddy that flew to a burglary in progress...had about 3 complaints filled (nieghbors within 3 houses) but he caught the burglary hanging out the window red handed....lights and sirens or taking his time he wouldnt have been there....My guess is the homeowner appreciated keeping his stuff and having the guy caught in the act. Most of you are martial artist who know how to think and know there are more then one side to a story....use your head and maybe think there is another side sometimes.

 

[brianhunter]

Originally posted by Technopunk
The cop is ALSO guilty of speeding. Why is it OK for him to break the law??? Because he has a badge? Ok... theorectically if its ok for him to do so (speed to catch a speeder) then in court, shouldnt the defense that you were speeding to catch another speeder that you intended to place under citizens arrest be just as valid??? And if not, than isn't it true that the cops are above the law?

Actually no he is not.....in my state it is in statute that if you (the officer) are actively pursuing an offense and reasonably need to speed to enforce said offense it is not a violation of the law. Most states have something very similar I am sure set up in their statute. So as long as you are acting within the realm of your duty you are allowed BY STATUTE to speed.

 

[Nightingale]

I think most cops are good cops... we just hear about the bad ones.

 

[jeffkyle]

Originally posted by nightingale8472
I think most cops are good cops... we just hear about the bad ones.

How often do we actually notice the GOOD of ANYTHING? How often do you call the phone company to say thanks for your sevice working for the last 3 months straight? How often do you thank your husband/wife for being there when you come home, or wake up? Or how often do we call our mechanic to thank them for our car running very well for the last year since they worked on it last?
The whole thread was started as a speculation based on some instances that are noticed by most of us. These may be the "bad" cops that we see, or these actions may be very Justified.
I didn't take it as "cop bashing" but merely something to think about the next time I see any of these things happen.

By the way Nightingale I like your signature.

 

[theletch1]

I call this sort of thing the 10% rule. Every group of individuals has about 10% that gives the other 90% a bad name. It was true in the Marines, true in MA and is true in my job as a truck driver. Don't let the 10% taint your view of the rest. I am very good friends with officers from several different jurisdictions here in Va and am lucky enough to get candid answers to questions like this "Why is it ok for you to speed" question. If your state or county allows such a thing request a ride along with an officer to see what they do on a regular basis.

Here in roanoke, va we have city officers who have been convicted of everything from domestic abuse to drunk and disorderly to poaching but the rest of the guys on the force are great guys and gals who do their job with the utmost of proffesionalism and integrity.

 

[Cryozombie]

Originally posted by brianhunter
Actually no he is not.....in my state it is in statute that if you (the officer) are actively pursuing an offense and reasonably need to speed to enforce said offense it is not a violation of the law. Most states have something very similar I am sure set up in their statute. So as long as you are acting within the realm of your duty you are allowed BY STATUTE to speed.

So this falls under the second part of my statement...

Originally posted by Technopunk
Ok... theorectically if its ok for him to do so (speed to catch a speeder) then in court, shouldnt the defense that you were speeding to catch another speeder that you intended to place under citizens arrest be just as valid???

I stand by that question... Why wouldnt it be OK for me to speed, providing I claimed I was trying to prevent a crime???

And again, I stand by my previous statement that I am not bashing LEO in any way, or trying to point out "bad cops" who should have their donuts taken away... (THAT is my bad cop story if anyone really wants to hear it)
My father is a Retired cop, and I asked the same question to him... he just lauged at me and said "It probably wouldnt work" (the defense) but hey what can you do...

Ceicei, My boss has a Blackbelt in Taekwondo, but he still wont give us a bag. Its too bad too, we have a small office (people wise) and we have 4 martial artists and a boxer there... a bag would be cool, and get used...

 

[Cruentus]

I was very serious about becoming a cop. I ended up getting snatched up by the largest Private Bank in the World (before I could go through personell at Oakland County) to work in research, and now I run a wealth management group. Kind of a different path, one that I don't regret, and one that my fiancee is very happy with. There are a lot of "perks" over a "regular" job, such as not having to work nights and holidays, not having to deal with the scum of the world all day long, not being looked at with fear or hatred every time I have to do my job, and not getting shot at, etc. Ya know....perks.

Well, getting back on subject, I did a lot of research into the job, including a drive along during a shift. One thing I realized is that there are a lot of things that go on that the public doesn't realize. Sure, it seems like a cop can "speed" whenever they want, or run red lights whenever they want, but usually they are on a call, or doing something that their job requires.

Cops have the authority to run by a different set of rules then civilians, especially when they are on the clock. And they should. And as civilians, we shouldn't *****. You could just as "easily" get the "privilages" of a cop too. Just take your M-Coles (or whatever test your state requires), go to academy, then get a job making S**T money working mid-night shifts at the jail, and taking S**t jobs for at least your 1st 5 years or more before your able to get all the "perks," and before you start making a decent living. Go right ahead....

I, personally, would rather pick my battles. There are cases of bad cops abusing authority; and I'd rather speak up against those. I am not going to complain about a cop "disobeying" a traffic law, or carrying a gun, or any of the little stuff because chances are, they are doing their job.

 

[clapping_tiger]

How often do we actually notice the GOOD of ANYTHING? How often do you call the phone company to say thanks for your sevice working for the last 3 months straight? How often do you thank your husband/wife for being there when you come home, or wake up? Or how often do we call our mechanic to thank them for our car running very well for the last year since they worked on it last?

I agree with this statement also, I am very thankful that most of the police do their job, and do it well in my community. The problem I have is off duty hours. Some of the younger officers (early to late twenties) drink (heavily) and drive, and I have even heard rumors of marijuana use(I find it a little hard to believe, you would think they get tested regularly). I have seen the drinking and driving, but I have not seen first hand the drug usage. I have been told by one of my friends that they enjoy hanging out with these guys because it is a get out of jail free card. I don't know if there is any truth to that, but I have never seen a cop in the paper getting a fine or a revocation because of drunk driving. Kind of makes me wonder...