Contracts in the DOJO
- Thread starter Gotkenpo
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JBrainard
Senior Master
Would you please clarify what you mean by contract?
Many, many schools require a student to sign a contract that states a length of study and the cost per month for those lessons. This is commen in those schools that are run as a business not as a club. Rent , bills, etc. have to be paid so they want to make sure they can cover the costs of staying open
JBrainard
Senior Master
When I joined my school (after a trial period) I had to sign a contract stating the length of study and cost per month. The cool thing about the deal is that if I don't get my black belt by the end of the 3 year period, classes are free until I get it. Pretty sweet deal, if you ask me.
hrlmonkey
Yellow Belt
this is becoming standard practice in the uk, after being picked up from america (i believe?).
its acceptable after a student has had the chance to assess the school, decided its for them and is willing to commit to the terms of the contract.
if they are paying for two lessons a week, they are more inclined to turn up. if they dont, its their money wasted and the school time is still payed for. this ensures that everybody else gets what they require of the class, without paying private rates.
there are increasing numbers of instructors and associations that try to lock you into the contract, before youve had time to assess the school. this is wrong, end of story.
its acceptable after a student has had the chance to assess the school, decided its for them and is willing to commit to the terms of the contract.
if they are paying for two lessons a week, they are more inclined to turn up. if they dont, its their money wasted and the school time is still payed for. this ensures that everybody else gets what they require of the class, without paying private rates.
there are increasing numbers of instructors and associations that try to lock you into the contract, before youve had time to assess the school. this is wrong, end of story.
OP
Gotkenpo
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Yeah, I found a school that interests me but it requires a 1 year contract and $85 per month. I have no problem with the fee because it seems to fair to me, I just had a bad experience with a contract school and the agency they hired to administer the contract. Therein lies my concern. The administration of the contract....
OP
Gotkenpo
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I guess my real question is this.... Has anyone had bad esperiences with how a contract they signed for MA training has been administered? Also those who have had contracts have they been smoothly administered as far as payments go, payments credited on time , payments not lost or received cashed but never credited. My only contractual experience with an MA school resulted in me not training anymore due to the bad taste it left. I would send my payments early and they would charge me late fees and in 1 years time they cashed my checks 3 times but never credited my account and I had to argue with them to get them credited after presenting proof of payment in the form of cancelled checks
Shuto
Purple Belt
My wife, son, and I have never had a problem.
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Contracts are quite commonplace. Some people don't like them, but at the same time, just because you sign a long-term contract, does not necessarily mean you're stuck there.
Most places will have various "out clauses," where you can cancel the remainder of your contract, no strings attached, if there's a good reason, such as health issues, moving away, etc.
Even if you don't have one of the above reasons, they'll most of the time, let you buy out the remainder of your contract at a reduced rate.
In our dojo, we have two types of long-term contracts, one that uses a 1 year length, another which uses a 3 year length, but for those who just want to try it out for a short while, to see if they like it or not, we do have a 6 week program. The way I see it, 6 weeks is plenty of time for someone to decide if he likes it or not, and if he doesn't want to wait until the 6 weeks are over to sign a longer contract, I'll sign them up that very day, and then give them credit for the remainder of the original contract.
The important thing to remember, is that by using such contracts, at least you won't be suffering through nearly as many dry spells as someone who allows his students to pay month to month.
Most places will have various "out clauses," where you can cancel the remainder of your contract, no strings attached, if there's a good reason, such as health issues, moving away, etc.
Even if you don't have one of the above reasons, they'll most of the time, let you buy out the remainder of your contract at a reduced rate.
In our dojo, we have two types of long-term contracts, one that uses a 1 year length, another which uses a 3 year length, but for those who just want to try it out for a short while, to see if they like it or not, we do have a 6 week program. The way I see it, 6 weeks is plenty of time for someone to decide if he likes it or not, and if he doesn't want to wait until the 6 weeks are over to sign a longer contract, I'll sign them up that very day, and then give them credit for the remainder of the original contract.
The important thing to remember, is that by using such contracts, at least you won't be suffering through nearly as many dry spells as someone who allows his students to pay month to month.
hrlmonkey
Yellow Belt
having seen some more responses, i'll give a second answer to the question.
in the uk, the school i taught for used a contracting company - name witheld for obvious reasons. they attempted to collect payments more often than was contracted, i.e. twice a month on occasions. they also found it hard to re-credit afterwards, and sometimes took 3 months to return cash owed, even taking extra monthly payments along the way. there were other problems, but i think you get the idea by now....
after 2 years of this, we parted with this company, as we had too many conflicts of interest. we must have lost half the numbers we had at the classes, due to the innept way that they were ran. and then they started to try and take payments from the students again about 2 months after we parted. after they were contacted, they told us it wasnt happening. we had to send them proof that it was, and we lost more students through this.
there is more to this story, but i have no taste to carry it on. only to say, that if i ever teach again, i will be very wary of using a contract collection company again. i just hope that they are run better in america than in the uk.
in the uk, the school i taught for used a contracting company - name witheld for obvious reasons. they attempted to collect payments more often than was contracted, i.e. twice a month on occasions. they also found it hard to re-credit afterwards, and sometimes took 3 months to return cash owed, even taking extra monthly payments along the way. there were other problems, but i think you get the idea by now....
after 2 years of this, we parted with this company, as we had too many conflicts of interest. we must have lost half the numbers we had at the classes, due to the innept way that they were ran. and then they started to try and take payments from the students again about 2 months after we parted. after they were contacted, they told us it wasnt happening. we had to send them proof that it was, and we lost more students through this.
there is more to this story, but i have no taste to carry it on. only to say, that if i ever teach again, i will be very wary of using a contract collection company again. i just hope that they are run better in america than in the uk.
Freestyler777
Blue Belt
I haven't read all the posts, but in my opinion, contracts are not entirely good or bad. it's good for the instructor, that's for sure, it secures him an income and he doesn't have to go after students and remind them to pay monthly dues.
I think the BJJ teachers do it best: Offer daily mat fee (most expensive) monthly w/o contract (expensive) or a contract for 3 to 6 months (least expensive) that way, the people who want a contract pay less per month, and those who want the freedom of a no-contract situation pay slightly more. I thnk that is fair.
If I was running a school, I would only do a mat fee or month by month. Just to be a nice guy. But this is America, and business is business.
I think the BJJ teachers do it best: Offer daily mat fee (most expensive) monthly w/o contract (expensive) or a contract for 3 to 6 months (least expensive) that way, the people who want a contract pay less per month, and those who want the freedom of a no-contract situation pay slightly more. I thnk that is fair.
If I was running a school, I would only do a mat fee or month by month. Just to be a nice guy. But this is America, and business is business.
As long as landlords require a contract on the lease and the instructor needs a steady source of income to live off of, contracts are going to be there.
Would you work for someone without some sort of contract?
Would you work for someone without some sort of contract?
Well we are a commercial school and have bills to pay but uses no contracts I find them stupid at best, if you are doing a great job people will stay if not let them find out what they want in there training experience.
This is how I feel as well Terry even though I would not classify myself really as a commercial school. (any money the Training Hall makes goes back into the Training Hall)
Still I could see the benefits of contracts particularly in a big commercial school where there are high costs of being open.
zDom
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I used be against them, but now I think they are a good thing for the STUDENTS.
Most benefits from martial arts (like most physical fitness programs) are only gained after a significant amount of time is spent in the activity.
Having a contract in place can help motivate the student to show up and not quit before those benefits begin to make themselves apparent.
Also, it is good for the dedicated students why should their instructor be wasting his time teaching a student who will be gone after two months when that time could be better spent on someone who is going to stick around and truly benefit from their attention?
Most benefits from martial arts (like most physical fitness programs) are only gained after a significant amount of time is spent in the activity.
Having a contract in place can help motivate the student to show up and not quit before those benefits begin to make themselves apparent.
Also, it is good for the dedicated students why should their instructor be wasting his time teaching a student who will be gone after two months when that time could be better spent on someone who is going to stick around and truly benefit from their attention?
I do not call myself a commercial school either but we are in a commercial building so the saying goes.
Or an invititation to promoting people who aren't qualified... After all, the school can't stay in business with too many free students!
I've got a problem with any guaranteed black belt program. I don't use contracts, since I don't teach commercially/professionally. I promise to train you; you promise to come to class. I let my partner handle the dues -- and we have been known to make exceptions for students.
I have made the personal commitment to my students that I will make myself available to them until they reach black belt (or at least find them another instructor if I'm not able to do so for some reason), as long as they continue to want to train.
I don't have a general problem with contracts; after all, a commercial school has to be able to pay the bills. Collection agencies or contract adminstration companies are a different question; if I were requiring contracts, I'd monitor the agency I used to collect closely. After all, they may be "Grab The Money Contract Administrators" -- but they're acting in my name.
With us, students may pay month to month with no committment OR they may pay a cheaper rate by commiting to a 6 month or 1 year agreement.
For us, using the contract helps maintain relationships because it avoids any misunderstandings about the payment arrangement since it is in writing, and I think we come across as professionals by putting it in writing.
I do agree that there is no substitute for providing quality instruction and treating people right,. That is the foundation that will build your school, not the contracts. Misuse of contracts will just ruin your reputation.
We also are fair when students come to us with problems and if they have a true hardship you can be sure that we will work with them so that they can still train with us if they truly want to.
I have seen schools succeed with and without contracts and as previosuly stated, it largely comes down to quality instruction and treating people right. But make no mistake, if you run a large school with a large rent you need to tend to the business side or you may not be around long!
For us, using the contract helps maintain relationships because it avoids any misunderstandings about the payment arrangement since it is in writing, and I think we come across as professionals by putting it in writing.
I do agree that there is no substitute for providing quality instruction and treating people right,. That is the foundation that will build your school, not the contracts. Misuse of contracts will just ruin your reputation.
We also are fair when students come to us with problems and if they have a true hardship you can be sure that we will work with them so that they can still train with us if they truly want to.
I have seen schools succeed with and without contracts and as previosuly stated, it largely comes down to quality instruction and treating people right. But make no mistake, if you run a large school with a large rent you need to tend to the business side or you may not be around long!
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