confused

[hammer]

Just a question,or two,

Does participating in a seminar count as trainning with a Instructor?

What about taking photos with the presenter (master) of the seminar?

My questions arose after seaching the net, and seeing the claims of a school owner, as to who he has trained with, knowing in one case ,we only spent 1.5 hours there!

Picture opportunities came up dose this vailidate his claim?
or is it just a way to self promote, and give regonition to endose such claims?

your thoughts??
cheers

 

[Sin]

If someone tells you they have trained with someone that is REALLY high up there in rank IE Oyata, i would be sure to ask them 1)How long 2)What belt rank did they get with him ect. To to validate claims, and don't feel like your disrespecting someone when you inquire about there training, because if there truthful 100% they will not be upset.............

Be careful of all the mcdojos out there. They are all about Flash and they don't have any tradition what so ever, To them there all about the almighty doller

Good question!!

 

[MJS]

Just a question,or two,

Does participating in a seminar count as trainning with a Instructor?

What about taking photos with the presenter (master) of the seminar?

My questions arose after seaching the net, and seeing the claims of a school owner, as to who he has trained with, knowing in one case ,we only spent 1.5 hours there!

Picture opportunities came up dose this vailidate his claim?
or is it just a way to self promote, and give regonition to endose such claims?

your thoughts??
cheers

I would have to say NO to both questions. IMO, attending a seminar with someone that you possibly may not see again for quite a long period of time, does not constitute saying that you have 'trained' with him or are a student of his. Yes, of course, the person is doing some hands on training for X number of hours, but if its not on a regular basis, that is not training in the same fashion as if I went to this inst. school 4 times a week to train.

As for a picture...still doesn't count IMO. I have pictures of myself with a few inst. but I do not consider myself a student of theirs or would I use them as a promotion to get students at my school. Now again, if I was a regular student of said inst. and I trained with him on a regular basis, had him in for seminars, etc. then yes, that would be different.

Mike

 

[Adept]

Be careful of all the mcdojos out there. They are all about Flash and they don't have any tradition what so ever, To them there all about the almighty doller

Tradition be damned. I'm far more concerned with the level of appropriate training. Frankly, I dont concern myself with this kind of martial arts penis size contest.

'I trained with so-and-so!'

'Did not!'

'Did too!'

'Nuh uh!'

'Uh huh!'

The wholle thing just seems childish to me. I don't care who my instructors have trained with, or claimed to train with, so long as I believe I am recieving quality instruction. I most certainly don't care who other peoples instructors claim to have trained with.

 

[loki09789]

The wholle thing just seems childish to me. I don't care who my instructors have trained with, or claimed to train with, so long as I believe I am recieving quality instruction. I most certainly don't care who other peoples instructors claim to have trained with.

If they can do it well, it speaks to their skill and discipline/talent as a practitioner.

If they can teach it, it speaks to their skill and discipline/talent as a teacher.

If they have to make up or embellish claims about who and where/when/how long they trained with XYZ folks, it speaks to them as a person (their character, their integrity....).

As an adult, I am in charge of who I associate with - and who I expose my children to along the way. If I KNOW that there is shadiness in an instructors claims while they are preaching 'ethics' and 'character' to me and my children...I'm gone. I can get good instruction without comprimising character.

I agree with your point that a good artist does not automatically make a person a 'good person' but I do think that between the two, I would rather affiliate with 'good people' than 'great martial artists' that will lead me the wrong way or do things that (by association) leave a negative impression on me as well.

How 'valid' will your rank be if the person who promoted you and the association you belong to has a smeared and questionable past?

Of course the proof of skill is 'on the mat' for the individual but proof of the quality of a system/system head is 'on the pedigree' so to speak.

 

[Sin]

i wouldn't want to be trained by an unhonorable man. Martial Arts is not about "the way of asskick" its about growing morally, as much as physically. Your sensei is a role model to you no matter how hard you deny it. (not that you are though, just some would disagree)

 

[hammer]

Adept, I admire your straight forward approach and it is refreshing ,although I dont feel that sin was refering to tradition ,as a traditional system of martial arts but rather to the moral values that are referenced to the martial arts.

Additionally bullsh it comes in many colours an shades, so you have to know were your ve been , to know were your going,( hope) and as for what is the appropriate level of training, dose that not reflect the level of experince of a Instructor???

The miss representation of grades, and claims, only indicates as to the type of training that a student will recive , there have been those that thought were reciving the appropriate level of trainng and or instruction only to find out that it was well below par,

just a thought
cheers

 

[Sin]

Adept, I admire your straight forward approach and it is refreshing ,although I dont feel that sin was refering to tradition ,as a traditional system of martial arts but rather to the moral values that are referenced to the martial arts.


just a thought
cheers

you hit the nail on the head, but also I was refering to the traditional ways of doing a kata

 

[loki09789]

Adept, I admire your straight forward approach and it is refreshing ,although I dont feel that sin was refering to tradition ,as a traditional system of martial arts but rather to the moral values that are referenced to the martial arts.

Additionally bullsh it comes in many colours an shades, so you have to know were your ve been , to know were your going,( hope) and as for what is the appropriate level of training, dose that not reflect the level of experince of a Instructor???

The miss representation of grades, and claims, only indicates as to the type of training that a student will recive , there have been those that thought were reciving the appropriate level of trainng and or instruction only to find out that it was well below par,

just a thought
cheers

Married folks know this one and I think it has an analogous fit here:

If he/she will cheat WITH you on his/her current significant other...then they will cheat ON you when you are his/her new significant other.

If an instructor will lie to others (an maybe you) about his/her pedigree, he/she will lie to you about YOUR pedigree as well.

 

[hammer]

SIN
Sorry, pehaps it was not my place to respond ,but it was pretty self evident as to what you were refering to except the kata, lol
cheers

 

[Sin]

Married folks know this one and I think it has an analogous fit here:

If he/she will cheat WITH you on his/her current significant other...then they will cheat ON you when you are his/her new significant other.

If an instructor will lie to others (an maybe you) about his/her pedigree, he/she will lie to you about YOUR pedigree as well.

put very well.

that is why i would rather train with an honorable person than someone who ordered there black belt off the internet and bought a couple Dillman/Oyata tapes

 

[hammer]

If an instructor will lie to others (an maybe you) about his/her pedigree, he/she will lie to you about YOUR pedigree as well.

So true, MR Conaster as a very common quote, "Time will either promote you expose you" funny huh!

cheers

 

[Sin]

No one knows who won a war, until about 20 year later. history decides the winner. Same with the martial arts instructors

 

[Adept]

i wouldn't want to be trained by an unhonorable man. Martial Arts is not about "the way of asskick" its about growing morally, as much as physically. Your sensei is a role model to you no matter how hard you deny it. (not that you are though, just some would disagree)

To only a very minimal extent, I agree with you. On a personal level, my instructor is not a moral role model. My parents where, certain figures from the media were (notably, and embarrasingly, Optimus Prime), but I didn't start training until I was 15. My cognitive development was pretty much taken care of by then, and even if it weren't, three hours a week of physical training is hardly enough to cause one to develop.

MA have helped me to grow in terms of self discipline, self respect and confidence, it si true, but morally they are no more of a guide for me than baseball or cricket. They are just a set of maneuveres which I use with my own, pre-existing philosophies.

To which end, I don't care if my instructor is a liar and a cheat. So long as he still gives quality instruction, it doesn't worry me.

Now, admittedly, a person who feels they have to make up credentials is probably going to give sub-par instruction as well, but for me at least, I feel it important to seperate the two, and judge my instructor by the instruction I am receiving, not by his personal history and choices (except where they place me and my family at risk).

 

[FearlessFreep]

To which end, I don't care if my instructor is a liar and a cheat. So long as he still gives quality instruction, it doesn't worry me.

Usually newbies cannot tell the difference between good instruction or not, and you may be a lot of money and time into an instructor before you realize he's just putting you on.

If you know the character of a person, then you can have a better feeling that the guy is at least doing the best he can for you, or not. If you know that an instructor seriously trained and studied under a person of great skill and knowledge, then it's more likely that he knows his stuff. If he lies about who he studied under, then what else will he lie to you about? And how will you know?

Claims of lineage may not be important in there own right, but honorable claims of lineage can help cover over uncertainty in whether or not the person who is teaching you something you've never done before if he really has grounds for what he is teaching you

 

[dearnis.com]

Nothing wrong with asking an instructor (or potential instructor) who, where, when, and how often. Photos alone don't mean a whole lot (and I am an advocate of taking photos...for your own memories if nothing else!) If the instructor has a number of photos with a big name, obviously over a span of years, in different settings, etc., that adds credibility.
It all comes down to personal integrity. My example- I have attended a handful of seminars with Dan Inosanto over a 10 year span. Can I claim to have studied with him- no; at best I can claim to have spent a few hours studying him. Good time, enhanced my understanding of what I do by means of a different perspective; saw a famous martial artist do his thing. Very positive, but not something on which to base teaching claims!

 

[47MartialMan]

A picture is worth a thousand words, but do they tell the truth or falsehood?

I do not think seminars account for anything but a tap of knowledge lightly and someone to tap the wallet heavily.

 

[RRouuselot]

Just a question,or two,

1) Does participating in a seminar count as trainning with a Instructor?

2) What about taking photos with the presenter (master) of the seminar?

3) My questions arose after seaching the net, and seeing the claims of a school owner, as to who he has trained with, knowing in one case ,we only spent 1.5 hours there!

4) Picture opportunities came up dose this vailidate his claim?
or is it just a way to self promote, and give regonition to endose such claims?

your thoughts??
cheers

1)Yes and no. It doesn’t make you a “student” but if he imparts knowledge to you then I guess that can be classified as “training” with him.

2)Should be no problem but some people will do that to justify their claims that they will make AFTER the seminar. I know of several famous authors and also infamous nut jobs that practice “shashin-do” (the way of photography). It’s pretty sneaky but it almost always solidifies their claim to fame….that is UNLESS you were there to see what REALLY happened.

3)This is typical.

4)It doesn’t validate anything except they were in the same room when someone had access to a camera.

Personally, I think the more photos a person takes with “famous” teachers and claims they trained with them the more questionable the actual training was.

 

[RRouuselot]

No one knows who won a war, until about 20 year later. history decides the winner. Same with the martial arts instructors

Actually the winner decides history........

 

[RRouuselot]

1) If someone tells you they have trained with someone that is REALLY high up there in rank IE Oyata, i would be sure to ask them 1)How long 2)What belt rank did they get with him ect. To to validate claims, and don't feel like your disrespecting someone when you inquire about there training, because if there truthful 100% they will not be upset.............

2) Be careful of all the mcdojos out there. They are all about Flash and they don't have any tradition what so ever, To them there all about the almighty doller

Good question!!

1) Yeah....my feelings exactly. Funny how some folks get upset though.

2) Especially one's with odd sounding names that try to use asian sounding names but don't really know how to.