CMA Success Story!

[arnisador]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/italy/story/0,12576,1061765,00.html

Martial arts expert kills two raiders

Philip Willan in Rome
Monday October 13, 2003
The Guardian

A Chinese martial arts expert was in custody yesterday after turning the tables on four burglars armed with knives, killing two of them and seriously wounding a third.

The 28-year-old man, known as "the doctor" for his practice of acupuncture and traditional Chinese medicine, managed to seize one of the two knives carried by his assailants and saw off the entire group with the ferocity of his reaction.

Magistrates in the central Italian town of Empoli are now seeking to establish whether his self-defence constituted an excessive use of force.

The butchery, worthy of a Quentin Tarantino film, began shortly before midnight on Friday when the four men knocked at the apartment of a Chinese hairdresser in the centre of Empoli.

The hairdresser, her assistant and "the doctor", who operated from the same premises, were reportedly overpowered and tied up before the group, all thought to be in their 20s and 30s, ransacked the apartment.

Disappointed by their meagre booty, the attackers allegedly threatened to rape the two women unless they told them where the rest of their money was hidden.

At this point the doctor managed to free himself, seize a knife from one of the aggressors and deliver a series of lethal stab wounds.

Investigators found the body of one man, who had been stabbed in the heart, sprawled on the staircase and another man bleeding to death in the street from a wound to his leg. A third man is recovering in hospital from a punctured lung.

The doctor was found crouching in the entrance to the building with cuts to his shoulder, face and hands.

Investigators are trying to determine whether he inflicted the injuries while defending himself inside the apartment, or hunted down the burglars after they had fled.

I presume he studied the Chinese martial arts, as well as being a martial artist of Chinese descent.

 

[7starmantis]

Wow, that's pretty intense. I truly hope he did not hunt them down after the incident, but to me it sounds as if they were all inflicted pretty close to where it all happened. I may be wrong, but after having been tied up, and having the threat of rape, I think his actions were justified as self defense, or at least defense of the group. To watch that going on without acting, I think would be a crime.
Man, I just keep thinking about how it must have happened. That's intense.


7sm

 

[tshadowchaser]

Not knowing all of what happened I must judge from what was presented and i feel he did the right thing.
It sounds as if the man did persue them for a ways but that may have been correct if the threat of rape and/or them comeing back was evident
protection of house , family and the weak from those who would do bodily harm or worse

 

[7starmantis]

Man its like pulling teeth to get conversation going in here. Kinda sad for me.
I do appreciate you guys trying to help out by posting in here.

7sm

 

[arnisador]

We need to attract more CMA people.

 

[brothershaw]

I believe alot of the cma people are busy fighting each other on another forum, lol sad but true.
It funny you sometimes learn martial arts for the self defense but as time passes the more ways you know how to hurt people the less willing you are to do so, ( speaking for myself anyway).
It doesnt sound like this guy wanted to hurt anybody at all at least not in the beginning.

 

[someguy]

Yeah sounds to me like he would have let them go if not for the threats the burglars made at the end

 

[SenseiBear]

about what happens to this gentleman. Clearly (based on the above report) he acted correctly - if he is found guilty of excessive force, it will be a sad day for MAists.

I browse this forum occassionally, but the styles I study aren't often given a ton of credence by Traditional CMA people, so I don't often speak up here.

 

[arnisador]

Thread split. See:
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11251

-Arnisador
-MT Admin-

 

[7starmantis]

I wonder how this ended up? I've been thinking of this type of scenario lately, do you guys think this type of force is acceptable even in this type of a situation?

7sm

 

[WLMantisKid]

I think he was willing to let it all go untill they threatened the rape the two women.

He escaped from the ropes, so obviously he could have done it at any time, he just didnt want to cause trouble.

I personally feel he was justified in taking them down, they obviously had intent to harm, maim, or kill one or more of the people they captured, so he did what he could to stop it.

 

[7starmantis]

I know this is a very old thread, but I just started wondering if anyone knew how this ended up? I would be interested in hearing more stories like this if anyone has them.

7sm

 

[Skankatron Ltd]

I beleive that the use of force was not excessive. In martial arts, the main idea is to use force LAST. But! When you DO use force, you win. You go all the way. That's why you must use force last; because if you use it at all, you should hold nothing back.

 

[Infrazael]

Hmm. . . . we don't know the whole thing. I don't feel it was too excessive, but I do feel that it can be controlled more. I personally, would probably go to incapacitate the arms and legs, not the body and internal organs.

 

[7starmantis]

Hmm. . . . we don't know the whole thing. I don't feel it was too excessive, but I do feel that it can be controlled more. I personally, would probably go to incapacitate the arms and legs, not the body and internal organs.

Actually in that situation I'm going for whatever is open. I'm not going to limit myself to arms and legs and I'm not going to force arm and legs if body is open. My opinion would be to kill or be killed.

7sm

 

[Ceicei]

Actually in that situation I'm going for whatever is open. I'm not going to limit myself to arms and legs and I'm not going to force arm and legs if body is open. My opinion would be to kill or be killed.

7sm

Exactly. With four attackers armed with knives, in a confrontation, the chance of getting killed is pretty high. The martial artist did what he had to do.

- Ceicei

 

[Isrephael]

Let's face it: CMA practitioners study a maim/cripple/kill art. In the empty hands styles, we are taught how to break joints, rupture organs, tear tendons/muscles, excise eyes/ears/tracheas... all before the opponent hits the ground. And may the Saints grant that he is unconscious by the time he gets there. Otherwise, the REALLY hardcore stuff begins.
Now, with that in mind, place a blade in my hands and the honor/safety of women on my shoulders? I'd say that the fourth guy was pretty lucky to have escaped.

I would also like to point out that, if Mr. CMA Guy was able to do all of this AFTER he was bound and the assailants were on their guard, then how much more could he have done at the initial onset of the scenario? The man chose to submit and allow the robbers free reign, so long as the only victims were possessions.