Cao Dai Religion

[LoneRider]

I just finished reading, for entertainment and not information (as I am well aware that Haha Lung has a somewhat dubious reputation), Lost Fighting Arts of Vietnam. I encountered the term Cao Dai and the wikipedia article mentioned it was a syncretistic religion that appears to combine Buddhist, Christian and (it seems) some Animist Vietnamese beliefs into a religion. Is anyone on this board familiar with this particular religion. As a scholar I am curious if my observation is accurate.

 

[oftheherd1]

I remember studying it briefly when I was attending the Vietnamese language course in the mid-60s. I don't recall ever meeting anyone who stated they followed that religion. I recall it was indeed an amalgamation of several religions. You might want to look at http://www.caodai.org/web/content.aspx?pageID=20 for more information. Understand that is a site that is promoting the religion, so it will be biased towards belief in Cao Dai.

 

[LoneRider]

Thanks Carol. I appreciate it. I figured Dr. Haha Lung's book, while entertaining, required a grain of salt while reading it.

 

[Carol]

Thanks Carol. I appreciate it. I figured Dr. Haha Lung's book, while entertaining, required a grain of salt while reading it.

Heh. I wasn't around to take Vietnamese language course in the mid 60s. You might want to thank oftheherd instead

 

[oftheherd1]

Heh. I wasn't around to take Vietnamese language course in the mid 60s. You might want to thank oftheherd instead

Well at least I am placed in good company.

 

[LoneRider]

Well at least I am placed in good company.

Sorry oftheherd1, thanks for the insight.

 

[oftheherd1]

Sorry oftheherd1, thanks for the insight.

You are more than welcome.

 

[LoneRider]

I figured Dr. Lung's book was of dubious quality when it came to reading of this particular religion. I find it interesting how it combines everything from Christianity, Buddhism, elements of Hinduism and traditional Vietnamese animism.

Where my family hails from in the Philippines I have heard of similar cross-cultural pollination of native animist beliefs and Catholic traditions in more remote parts of the country.

 

[DragonWC]

Maybe this link would help

http://english.caodai.net/index.php...ays&id=57:Caodaism+and+Unitarianism&Itemid=60

 

[Carol]

I figured Dr. Lung's book was of dubious quality when it came to reading of this particular religion. I find it interesting how it combines everything from Christianity, Buddhism, elements of Hinduism and traditional Vietnamese animism.

Where my family hails from in the Philippines I have heard of similar cross-cultural pollination of native animist beliefs and Catholic traditions in more remote parts of the country.

I have heard of such a thing as well. Those parts of the country are not just remote in terms of geography, but also in terms of technological and socioeconomic measurements as well (just speaking bluntly here, I do not mean that as an insult). Animism predates the RC church in the Malay Archipelago -- such a thing may look odd to us, but we look through the lens of a western eye.

The cross-pollination has been occurring for as long as there has been Christianity. In order for scripture to be followed, it must make sense to the local culture.

When the Christ Child was born, he was visited by the Three Magi, wise men from the East. They came bearing gifts -- the old Eastern religions (Zorostrianism, Hinduism, etc.) placed tremendous reverence on the day a person was born, that was a day to shower them with gifts showing appreciation, love, and affection. The fact that the Three Magi had borne gifts was not the significant part of the story, this was common to the culture. That they had followed the star to present to the Christ is the significant part of the story.

The 12 Apostles were known from the vicinity of the Sea of Galilee. This is a misnomer -- the Sea is not actually a sea, it is a lake. It is a landlocked body of water on the border of Israel and Syria (usually referred to as Lake Tiberias). Many Syrians of the day were Zorostrian, a religion/philosophy based on the teaching of Zoroaster or Zarathustra. Does Zarathustra sound familiar? Richard Strauss' composition, Also Sprach Zarathrustra, defined John Williams' career and became one of the most overused segments of classical composition. But I digress.

It was through the Zoroastrian's belief of a single, a pure God (Ahura Mazda) and the personification of evil in Angra Mainyu as the destroying spirit. Ahura Mazda literally translates to the words for "light" and "wisdom". Darkness refers to not only evil, but also ignorance -- an illustration which has permeated across Western culture. Ahura Mazda's birthday (remember, birthdays are very important) was believed to be Dec. 25. It is through the Anglo Saxons that Christmas is associated with the Winter Solstice/Yuletide tradditions of cutting evergreens Also through the Anglo Saxons stems the reason for naming our high holiday after a fertility goddess and celebrating with bunny rabbits and eggs. Many other western countries celebrate it with a more Christian name, recognizing the Feast of the Resurrection as exacly that (EU Spanish: Pascua de la Resurreccion), or simply The Feast (CALA Spanish: Pascua) When you wish someone a happy Easter in Scandinavia by saying God Påske, you are literally wishing them a Good Feast.

In the RC Church, we are likely to see St. John 1:1 written as this:
http://www.usccb.org/bible/john/john1.htm
In the beginning was the Word,
and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God

In the Chinese Union Version of the Bible, the same verse is written as this:
In the beginning was Dao,
and Dao was with God,
and Dao was God

In order for scripture to be followed, it must make sense to the local culture.

 

[oftheherd1]

I have heard of such a thing as well. Those parts of the country are not just remote in terms of geography, but also in terms of technological and socioeconomic measurements as well (just speaking bluntly here, I do not mean that as an insult). Animism predates the RC church in the Malay Archipelago -- such a thing may look odd to us, but we look through the lens of a western eye.

The cross-pollination has been occurring for as long as there has been Christianity. In order for scripture to be followed, it must make sense to the local culture.

When the Christ Child was born, he was visited by the Three Magi, wise men from the East. They came bearing gifts -- the old Eastern religions (Zorostrianism, Hinduism, etc.) placed tremendous reverence on the day a person was born, that was a day to shower them with gifts showing appreciation, love, and affection. The fact that the Three Magi had borne gifts was not the significant part of the story, this was common to the culture. That they had followed the star to present to the Christ is the significant part of the story.

The 12 Apostles were known from the vicinity of the Sea of Galilee. This is a misnomer -- the Sea is not actually a sea, it is a lake. It is a landlocked body of water on the border of Israel and Syria (usually referred to as Lake Tiberias). Many Syrians of the day were Zorostrian, a religion/philosophy based on the teaching of Zoroaster or Zarathustra. Does Zarathustra sound familiar? Richard Strauss' composition, Also Sprach Zarathrustra, defined John Williams' career and became one of the most overused segments of classical composition. But I digress.

It was through the Zoroastrian's belief of a single, a pure God (Ahura Mazda) and the personification of evil in Angra Mainyu as the destroying spirit. Ahura Mazda literally translates to the words for "light" and "wisdom". Darkness refers to not only evil, but also ignorance -- an illustration which has permeated across Western culture. Ahura Mazda's birthday (remember, birthdays are very important) was believed to be Dec. 25. It is through the Anglo Saxons that Christmas is associated with the Winter Solstice/Yuletide tradditions of cutting evergreens Also through the Anglo Saxons stems the reason for naming our high holiday after a fertility goddess and celebrating with bunny rabbits and eggs. Many other western countries celebrate it with a more Christian name, recognizing the Feast of the Resurrection as exacly that (EU Spanish: Pascua de la Resurreccion), or simply The Feast (CALA Spanish: Pascua) When you wish someone a happy Easter in Scandinavia by saying God Påske, you are literally wishing them a Good Feast.

In the RC Church, we are likely to see St. John 1:1 written as this:
http://www.usccb.org/bible/john/john1.htm
In the beginning was the Word,
and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God

In the Chinese Union Version of the Bible, the same verse is written as this:
In the beginning was Dao,
and Dao was with God,
and Dao was God

In order for scripture to be followed, it must make sense to the local culture.

[SUP]Carol - I don't know what the meaning is of Dao. I might have thought it was way, but that could be another Dao than the one used in the Chinese translation of the Bible. But it sounds as if you might have read Eternity In Their Hearts, by Don Richardson. For those of you not familiar with it, Richardson gives instances of primitive peoples who have beliefs that can be used to make it easier to relate to Christianity. That to help them to associate Christianity with something they know. What he is saying is that it can be used to show them their error, or lack of understanding, and then show them how Christianity is what they should be believing in. As he says in one place, "...has the God who prepared the gospel for all peoples also prepared all peoples for the gospel?" He then proceeds to show that is so.

For example, many ancient peoples have a belief in a "sky god" that they consider a supreme being. I know that is true of Koreans and Vietnamese, and no doubt others. It is therefore easier to relate God to Hanna-nim, or Troi. Other peoples have been found to have beliefs in someone who would come to them with a or the Book. It would contain the truth they had lost. Missionaries arriving with the Bible were greeted as the person with the Book, listened to the stories from the book, and converted to Christianity.

Getting back to Dao, the Catholic missionaries who first went to China and Japan tried to translate the Bible without doing that. It didn't work so well. Later, Protestant missionaries used what Richardson and Carol talk about, and it worked better. It requires knowing their beliefs, and if possible, using a concept of a supreme being, as God then revealed to them. Or in the case of a book, showing them the contents of the Bible, as the lost book they were looking for. It is not just the sometimes simple substitution of pagan sites or symbols for those taught as Christian, such as the Church of a saint, Guadalupe if I recall correctly, placed on the torn down Aztec temple to an Aztek goddess. It should be more based on the teachings of the Bible only.

An aside on Chinese, Richardson points out a Protestant missionary was studying the Chinese language. He knew that the writing consisted of 214 radicals, combined with other symbols to form 30,000 to 40,000 symbols for words or concepts. Translation therefore being a daunting task indeed. He happened to be studying the symbol for righteous when he noticed the upper part meant lamb, and the lower part meant I. He deciphered that as I under the lamb am righteous. The Chinese he talked to had not noted that before, but agreed when he pointed it out. When he asked them what lamb they had to be under to be righteous, they didn't know. He then expounded on the Bible showing them Christ as the lamb. He then noted that the symbol for man seemed to be a code for "Mankind come to the man on the tree." Before you consider that as simply a fortuitous discovery or wishful thinking, that is not repeated in the language, you should read The Discovery of Genesis by C. H. Kang and E. R. Nelson. I have read part of Kang and Nelson. I don't know much of anything about Chinese writing, but they make some compelling arguments. Some agree, some are sceptical, but it is interesting nonetheless.

The above is a very short and possibly not well explained synopsis of the book. It goes into much more detail, and is a worthy read for Christians or those interested in the spread of Christianity by missionaries.

Just some thoughts for consideration.
[/SUP]