Breaking question

[shawn313]

My master has started me on breaking boards, and yesterday I broke two boards for the first time using a backfist. It stung a little bit when I went through, but today my hand is a little swollen between the knuckles of my index and middle fingers. Does this mean my technique may have been off on the break, or should I be expecting some pain when breaking multiple boards?

Thanks,
Shawn Robinson

 

[TX_BB]

Your Okay,

Probably means you need to hit the bag more.

 

[TigerWoman]

I notice you are a white stripe, white belt with one stripe? In our school, the first hand technique is a hammerfist, or a palm strike on one board. Then there is no hand technique required until recommended black where we have to break 3 boards, palm and a knife speed break through one. Backfist is a advanced technique. It does, as TX BB said takes some toughening up, but I've notice alot of people still damage those first two knuckles alot anyway in the process. But bigger, tougher hands to begin with are a plus. TW

 

[shawn313]

I notice you are a white stripe, white belt with one stripe? In our school, the first hand technique is a hammerfist, or a palm strike on one board. Then there is no hand technique required until recommended black where we have to break 3 boards, palm and a knife speed break through one. Backfist is a advanced technique. It does, as TX BB said takes some toughening up, but I've notice alot of people still damage those first two knuckles alot anyway in the process. But bigger, tougher hands to begin with are a plus. TW

Yes, in our school the belt progression starts out white, then white stripe, then gold, then gold stripe, etc. For testing, we are not required to do a break until we go for gold stripe - and then only one board. He is giving us the opportunity to get used to breaking so we are ready for it during our tests. I am not sure about the black belt testing yet, but up to red belt we still only HAVE to break one board at a time, but we would have to break five boards in a sequence using different techniques. Incidentally, he did have me do a speed break by punching through a board I held with my other hand yesterday.

I am mainly concerned that I am doing the proper technique because with my size I could probably break two boards just because I'm hitting it hard enough. (Or that's what I have to assume since I can't imagine I have great speed or technique at the white stripe rank). I wasn't sure if a gauge of whether or not I did the technique correctly during the break would be an absence of pain, or if it is something I should expect in future power breaks until my hands get tougher, regardless of technique.

 

[TigerWoman]

Well, it sounds like you were off a little with the damage to the third knuckle instead of the first two but that will come with practice.

Its just that the you seem to be starting out a little fast as a white belt/stripe. Probably because of your height/weight/gender but still you need conditioning and technique work, just punching a bag corrrectly, before you hurt your hands. I have seen guys who have punched a lot have calcium buildup and bone damage. Some fearless women too, have disfigured hands. Its not something to just go willy-nilly into. As an artist when I joined, I was concerned about my hands. I won't punch boards for that reason although I love to punch the bag. Knife is okay, I've conditioned for that. I just don't think the body can put much callous over a knuckle, but I may be wrong, for some people may be genetically blessed with tough hands.

And yes, there is pain, but strangely the longer into TKD, the more immune I get to pain, besides the technique and focus gets better. Usually good technique will result in easier breaking without pain but still, there are some tough boards. Besides as you get stronger, like pushups for me, my capability for even concrete increased. I had to knife through concrete for 2nd. Absolutely killed my hand conditioning and practicing for that for a year. But I didn't have any damage. So that is where you draw the line.
Hope that helps. TW

 

[Marginal]

If you take care when you're conditioning your hands, they shouldn't get disfigured, no matter the tool. (At least I assume as much given that my instructors male and female alike tend to frown upon the gnarled hand set while still being able to do the same breaks.) It's not something you can rush simply by mashing the board/bag/makiwara etc as hard as you can.

 

[bignick]

Backfist can be a killer break...I know black belts that have broken their hand doing it....sounds like you made it out alright...what type of boards were you using?

 

[shawn313]

Backfist can be a killer break...I know black belts that have broken their hand doing it....sounds like you made it out alright...what type of boards were you using?

I think they are pretty standard boards, one inch thick pine. I hit the boards thinking it would be a pretty easy break, since I felt I could generate a lot of power with the backfist motion. That probably helped me do it more than anything, even though I'm still feeling it right now.

 

[gmkuoha]

Before learning to break...one must first condition your hands with a sand bag and/or a makiwara bag. Building up one's knuckles enables you to be able to break objects without injury. If you are going to condition your hands be sure to rub it down with dit da jow after (I was just contacted by Inside Kung Fu Magazine for my recipe which I gave them). You can contact the editor and ask Dave Cater what issue it will come out in. Another way to build your knuckles is to do two knuckle push-ups on concrete blocks...still using the dit da jow after. In our 1st history book we describe several exercises on what to do to prepare yourself. This book can be ordered through Amazon books or even Inside Kung Fu magazine.

Injury at this point can stop you mentally from ever breaking again as that is so common in the martial arts today. You might want to start Ki Breaking and that is with internal power. Hope this helps and let me know if you need any other info or help.

Best,
Grandmaster

 

[Marginal]

I'm curious, how does ki breaking differ from regular breaking assuming that the normal breaking is employing principles of proper biomechanics? Is it simply a matter of focus?

While I'm asking questions, one other... On the knuckle pushups, how are the concrete blocks employed? I can't really generate a good mental picture of the setup. Are they just for elevation, or do they offer additional benefits?

 

[ave_turuta]

In our school, the first hand technique is a hammerfist, or a palm strike on one board. Then there is no hand technique required until recommended black where we have to break 3 boards, palm and a knife speed break through one. Backfist is a advanced technique.

Hi TW!
In our school we start breaking at 8th gup. 8th and 7th must break one board by hand technique, one by foot technique. I did side kick with step the first time and then failed my hand break; for my 6th gup exam I did a back kick then while stepping down did knife hand strike... and it was beautiful!

(well, it felt beautiful) 6th and 5th gups must break two boards doing front kick, side kick and back kick (two boards each kick) to progress to 4th gup. I thnk after that the student must prepare her/his own breaking set up, and number of boards can never be lower than 2. It's assumed that the student will choose techniques with greater difficulty as we progress, like for instance jump back kick, or different hand breaks of increasing difficulty, etc.

Cheers,
A.T.

 

[Miles]

Welcome to MT Shawn313!

I find it strange that your instructor has you breaking multiple boards with a backfist when you are still a white belt.

That is a difficult break given the lack of hand-conditioning at your level (please do not take this for criticism, just observation). You are to be commended for completing the break successfully. In my dojang (and others I've observed), hand breaks are done pretty progressively-generally palm heel strike first, then either knife hand and/or hammer fist, then front punch, and then backfist, ridgehand, reverse ridgehand, spear hand, etc..

What hand-conditioning training do you work on in your dojang?

Miles

 

[Spookey]

Miles,

I agree, the break in comment is quite an accomplishment. I know more than a few people that arent capable of such a break even until they near or reach black belt!

Mr. Shawn,

Might I ask where you are located and who your instructor is?

TAEKWON!
SpooKeY

 

[shawn313]

Welcome to MT Shawn313!

I find it strange that your instructor has you breaking multiple boards with a backfist when you are still a white belt.

That is a difficult break given the lack of hand-conditioning at your level (please do not take this for criticism, just observation). You are to be commended for completing the break successfully. In my dojang (and others I've observed), hand breaks are done pretty progressively-generally palm heel strike first, then either knife hand and/or hammer fist, then front punch, and then backfist, ridgehand, reverse ridgehand, spear hand, etc..

What hand-conditioning training do you work on in your dojang?

Miles

The breaks I've done, and in the order I've done them:
Reverse punch
Ax kick
Neck chop (knife hand)
Side kick
Reverse punch (speed break by holding the board in the other hand)
Skip side kick
Backfist (two board)

All my breaks have been with one board so far, except the backfist. As far as conditioning, we practice hitting the bags quite often, but not really knuckle pushups on concrete or anything like that yet.

 

[shawn313]

Miles,

I agree, the break in comment is quite an accomplishment. I know more than a few people that arent capable of such a break even until they near or reach black belt!

Mr. Shawn,

Might I ask where you are located and who your instructor is?

TAEKWON!
SpooKeY

Thank you for the compliment. I wasn't aware the break was that difficult - if I was I might not have been able to do it (maybe mind over matter helped me?)

Anyway, I am in Woodbridge, Virginia. My instructor is Master Taehoon Kim of American Martial Arts Center.