Block or evade

[terryl965]

If you was doing Olympic style would you rather do a heavey block or evade your opponet?

In Self Defense stituation would you be evading or actually blocking the attack so you could control the attacker?

 

[searcher]

I am very glad you brought this up. Block and move are my primary principle when it comes to fighting. I try to let my students determine which is appropriate to be done first, but not taking a hit is always at the front of my thinking. I am of the position that they have to go hand in hand.

 

[terryl965]

I am very glad you brought this up. Block and move are my primary principle when it comes to fighting. I try to let my students determine which is appropriate to be done first, but not taking a hit is always at the front of my thinking. I am of the position that they have to go hand in hand.

Yes searcher you are right they do go hand and hand but find myself more of a blocker and trying to my opponet closer to me where I can do more damage to them, then they can to me.

 

[exile]

find myself more of a blocker and trying to my opponet closer to me where I can do more damage to them, then they can to me.

Terry---yes, get in where you can strike and you're too close for them to get their own strike in. This was something I was working on with one of our green belts on Tuesday... so, the dreaded grab-and-roundhouse combination, one of the most common kinds of attack from an `untrained' antagonist---what to do? I was trying to get him to see that for a blow coming in from the attacker's right hand, you can go outside, which is safer for you but also deprives you of many targets, or you can go in---facing the attacker, you move out of the way of the punch, rotate your grabbed right hand to break the grip and bring it around hard to intercept his striking right arm with hard blow to his upper arm, with your right side now very close to him (the movement which is usually labelled `inward middle block'); the right fist then becomes a knife-edge and strikes the base of his neck, or instead you can deliver a hard right-elbow strike to his face and then follow with a right-hand knife-edge strike to his throat or to his neck just behind the jaw... and best part is, you're right up against him and his left arm has almost no room to develop any momentum for a followup attack on you. It's pretty basic, but it can be very effective, even overwhelming, and can end the conflict pretty close to immediately if it's executed well (i.e., trained long and hard). And it works in tune with instinctive reactions.

 

[The Kidd]

Terry I think I see where your coming from, correct me if I am wrong. If you train Olympic style you want to evade as much as possible to not have a lucky hit become a point against you. In training this way though sometimes you miss out on opportunities to end a conflict in a real situation because you do not just block and strike. If that is the overall point you are trying to make I would agree. I like to as you block and counter and stay in close but I have found myself in sparring situations with a point mentality and evading and then realizing I missed golden opportunities to strike my opponent.

 

[terryl965]

Terry I think I see where your coming from, correct me if I am wrong. If you train Olympic style you want to evade as much as possible to not have a lucky hit become a point against you. In training this way though sometimes you miss out on opportunities to end a conflict in a real situation because you do not just block and strike. If that is the overall point you are trying to make I would agree. I like to as you block and counter and stay in close but I have found myself in sparring situations with a point mentality and evading and then realizing I missed golden opportunities to strike my opponent.

I can certainly understand what your training teaches you and appreciate it, but in a SD stituation you always need to strike whenit is available.

 

[Miles]

.. but not taking a hit is always at the front of my thinking. I am of the position that they have to go hand in hand.

I agree w/Searcher but would like to put this little twist on the discussion.

Last week I was teaching what I consider a progression of efficiency in fighting (ring or street).

At the first level, you learn to block with one limb and counter with another. For the sake of illustration, let's assume the attacker is using a right jab. The defender at this level might be blocking with her left arm and countering with a right palm-heel. The timing is: "one-Block, two-strike."

At the second level, the block and strike are simultaneously performed.

At the third level, the defender is using one limb to block, then counter. Same attack, but now defender is blocking with upper forearm and countering with a backfist. The timing is again, "one-block," "two-strike."

At the fourth and highest level, the defender is again using one limb, but the counter is the block. Same attack, but now the defender's forearm deflects the jab as the palmheel strike hits the attacker.

In each of these levels, the defender should be moving to evade. The evasion does not always have to be away from the attacker. Sometimes the safest place to be is on the inside.


Miles

 

[matt.m]

Blocking and evading to me support the same purpose.....Not to get hit. However, if you block hard then the aggressor may just think twice about trying to hit you.

 

[exile]

I agree w/Searcher but would like to put this little twist on the discussion.

Last week I was teaching what I consider a progression of efficiency in fighting (ring or street)...

At the third level, the defender is using one limb to block, then counter. Same attack, but now defender is blocking with upper forearm and countering with a backfist. The timing is again, "one-block," "two-strike."
In each of these levels, the defender should be moving to evade. The evasion does not always have to be away from the attacker. Sometimes the safest place to be is on the inside.
Miles

Miles---take a look at my earlier post---what you describe is almost exactly the sequence I was talking about teaching one of my students---like, down to the business about the advantages of going in very close on the inside and using the deflecting `block' to set up the strike on the assailant's neck with the same fist or knife handhand. Two minds with the same idea... it's gotta be right! :wink1:

 

[searcher]

I guess I will also add my twist to the discussion. I am a firm believer in blocks being strikes. Most likely from the southern chinese influence on the Okinawan MA, we do body conditioning to make our blocks hurt our oponents limbs. Block is a blow.

 

[Miles]

I guess I will also add my twist to the discussion. I am a firm believer in blocks being strikes. Most likely from the southern chinese influence on the Okinawan MA, we do body conditioning to make our blocks hurt our oponents limbs. Block is a blow.

Amen! Blocks are strikes. Actually, I was showing some students today that the standard set-up for a low block (arms crossing at approximately their respective elbows) is also a strike. Picture your opponent grabbing your right wrist with his right hand (cross arm wrist grab). The set-up for a low block is an arm-bar since your left forearm is striking/locking your opponent's right arm.

Same situation, but now you are doing the "low block." Your motion of pulling your grabbed arm straightens out his arm. Your "low block" is a strike to his upward facing right elbow.

Exile-great minds think alike. My wife tells me this whenever she agrees with me.

Miles

 

[exile]

Amen! Blocks are strikes. Actually, I was showing some students today that the standard set-up for a low block (arms crossing at approximately their respective elbows) is also a strike. Picture your opponent grabbing your right wrist with his right hand (cross arm wrist grab). The set-up for a low block is an arm-bar since your left forearm is striking/locking your opponent's right arm.

Yup---and the upward and downward movements of the elbows hint strongly at elbow strikes in the apps for these moves (after the armbar enforced by the lock via your forearm pressure on the assailant, your `blocking' arm is still moving into chamber via a move which brings the elbow up... and then down... bang!!)

Same situation, but now you are doing the "low block." Your motion of pulling your grabbed arm straightens out his arm. Your "low block" is a strike to his upward facing right elbow.

Right again...

Exile-great minds think alike. My wife tells me this whenever she agrees with me.

Miles

And she's right, eh? I mean, you never disagree with her when she says that, do you?! :wink1: