BJJ question

[TMA17]

So last week I attended an awesome Judo class where I observed people training for Olympic Judo and some that were there for the hobby/SD aspect. The instructor and school was great. LOVE watching the throws and takdowns. It was awesome. They also did some groundwork and good conditioning drills as you'd expect.

Tomorrow night I attend my free trial at a BJJ school. I've read and done research on both and I like both. It will come down to what I like to do best and also the minor commute time factor. (kids/school). I may not like either long term in which at that point I'll probably just do Krav but I'm hoping one of these places works out for me. I've never done any grappling.

From everything I read, it seems BJJ is great at fighting off your back once your taken down. I questioned this school I'm attending tomorrow night about their takedown/SD aspect. Instructor studied under Ricardo Almeida. They told me they they focus on both sport/SD aspects and have two high level wrestlers that I could work with on takedowns.

My question is, does BJJ help in any other way other then on your back? What if you're on top? What about standing control if you're at a bar or subway? Do any of the grappling aspects translate to other things then just fighting off your back? The lack of takedowns at most BJJ schools is a big negative to me. With Judo you get that and in a SD situation you start standing.

Once I get a feel of what this place is about tomorrow I'll take if from there.

If there were more wrestling/Catch Can places around that would probably be the best fit for me but there are none. I backed out of going to the JKD place as it doesn't do enough live sparring.

 

[Headhunter]

It depends on the place. In my bjj place the white belts don't do many takedowns (that could be because the hall the White belts train in doesn't have space since we have over 20 on the mat most times) but the blue belts do a lot of takedowns and there's also a Saturday class dedicated to takedowns and anyone can do it but there's not a lot of live throwing sparring again I think mainly for the space but our club is always successful in bjj competition and mma with one lad winning a fight with a guillotine from guard with only 3 months training.

But personally I wouldn't want to grapple at all in a bar or in a subway. I'd want to get to my feet straight away. Even if I was on top I'd want to get up quick or just punch them. I wouldn't be looking to pass to side control and lock up a kimura.

If you're looking for self defence I would recommend the Krav more (yes I am biased I do like Krav more) but in our Krav club the grappling we do is more beneficial for self defence. It has bjj aspects such as sweeps but it is also against common street ground attacks not submissions. E.g we've been taught how to stop someone kicking you in the head on the floor. How to move on the floor and stay covered and different ways to stNd up. There's 3. One is a general in place stand up so you can get to fighting stance. The second is the retreat get up. Where you cross a leg over and get into a sprinters position and run like hell the third is an attacking one where you crouch throw side kicks to the knee get up and explode forward. It also has pummelling in the clinch for under hooks and getting to the back and takedowns.

I know it may sound biased but I'm not telling you what to do both are good styles and either way it's better than nothing but those are my personal opinions. Take from it what you want

 

[TMA17]

Thanks, what you said makes a lot of sense.

I saw a Judo guy with a shirt that said:

"If MMA was fought on concreate, everyone would train Judo."

 

[now disabled]

Thanks, what you said makes a lot of sense.

I saw a Judo guy with a shirt that said:

"If MMA was fought on concreate, everyone would train Judo."

Don't matter if you on concrete or wherever in an SD situation ya really do not want to be going to the ground or trying to get a person to submit really imo it as headhunter says basically do the needful and get the hell away ...it the cops job to make people submit lol

 

[Tony Dismukes]

My question is, does BJJ help in any other way other then on your back? What if you're on top?

BJJ does tend to focus on groundfighting, but you will spend just as much time working from top as from bottom.

What about standing control if you're at a bar or subway?

That's part of BJJ, but how much it gets covered depends on the school.

Do any of the grappling aspects translate to other things then just fighting off your back?

Yep. As I mentioned previously, having a good top game is just as important in BJJ s having a good bottom game. In addition, the concepts and many of the skills from ground grappling carry over to standing grapping.

 

[TMA17]

Thanks Tony!

 

[Headhunter]

Don't matter if you on concrete or wherever in an SD situation ya really do not want to be going to the ground or trying to get a person to submit really imo it as headhunter says basically do the needful and get the hell away ...it the cops job to make people submit lol

Yep if I'm ever on my back in a fight I'm not going to try and pull him into full guard then work for a sweep as soon as I hit the floor I, doing everything I can to get up if they're on top of me, I'm going to punch, kick, bite, scratch or do whatever I can to get out of there

 

[Headhunter]

Thanks, what you said makes a lot of sense.

I saw a Judo guy with a shirt that said:

"If MMA was fought on concreate, everyone would train Judo."

Pretty much. Even in Mma you really don't want to be on your back because first if your on your back the judges score you as losing, second it's harder to use jiu jitsu when getting punched and elbowed in the face. It's a lot harder to set an arm bar when they're pounding you with the other arm

 

[now disabled]

Yep if I'm ever on my back in a fight I'm not going to try and pull him into full guard then work for a sweep as soon as I hit the floor I, doing everything I can to get up if they're on top of me, I'm going to punch, kick, bite, scratch or do whatever I can to get out of there

I totally agree and as you alluded to before the best option don't go to ground at all ...actually best option is run like hell first as again you alluded to

Yes if you are on the ground like you say priority number one get of the ground do what ya need to to do that and then leave fast

It could be that the cross over between what happens in the dojo and real life isn't being made overly clear and folks are seeing the ground work etc and thinking cool but in reality on a street etc it not gonna be sterile like the dojo (I don't mean clean lol mean controlled)

 

[now disabled]

Pretty much. Even in Mma you really don't want to be on your back because first if your on your back the judges score you as losing, second it's harder to use jiu jitsu when getting punched and elbowed in the face. It's a lot harder to set an arm bar when they're pounding you with the other arm

yup and it freaking hurts too lol

 

[TMA17]

I agree with you. However, I've seen quite a few street fight videos where BJJ/Judo guys subdue people so they can't do anything though either. Judo guys can end fights quickly by slamming them on the pavement hard.

 

[now disabled]

I agree with you. However, I've seen quite a few street fight videos where BJJ/Judo guys subdue people so they can't do anything though either. Judo guys can end fights quickly by slamming them on the pavement hard.

There are many forms and ways to subdue a person and I'm not being critical at all just saying that in a real life situation that going to ground cause you know the techs isn't the best of options ....I'm not saying it won't happen just best not to and avoid it happening

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Yep if I'm ever on my back in a fight I'm not going to try and pull him into full guard then work for a sweep as soon as I hit the floor I, doing everything I can to get up if they're on top of me, I'm going to punch, kick, bite, scratch or do whatever I can to get out of there

Some people are able to get that sweep quicker than i could trying to punch/kick/bite/etc out of the situation. if they can get the sweep in a second, much smarter just doing that then trying something else.

 

[Headhunter]

I agree with you. However, I've seen quite a few street fight videos where BJJ/Judo guys subdue people so they can't do anything though either. Judo guys can end fights quickly by slamming them on the pavement hard.

Sure they can but to me it's to much of a risk because while I'm tied up with one guy his friends can come in and attack and since your tied up with one guy you can't do anything to fight the others. Or if I'm clinched up with a guy or on the ground trying a submission he can easily pull a knife out his pocket and stab you. We had a demo of that in Krav last week I was asked to put an arm bar on the instructor and try to finish it so I did and he took a plastic knife out his pocket and hit my leg with it multiple times and there was nothing I could do to stop it

 

[Headhunter]

Some people are able to get that sweep quicker than i could trying to punch/kick/bite/etc out of the situation. if they can get the sweep in a second, much smarter just doing that then trying something else.

A sweep will never be faster than a punch no matter how good the grappler is in a sweep you still need to either get control of the arm or leg, get your hips in the right position get your legs in the proper position then execute the sweep. A punch is straight in no set up required.

It's the old saying punch a black belt he becomes a brown belt, punch a brown he becomes a purple etc. again I'm not hating on bjj as I do train it and enjoy it but I can definitely see its limitations

 

[TMA17]

All good points and no one is wrong here. You need both obviously. Jon Jones recently said he loves JJ and made a comment about how he'd rather just choke someone out then trade blows with them LOL. I love striking. Always have. Boxing was favorite combat sport growing up.

 

[drop bear]

Sure they can but to me it's to much of a risk because while I'm tied up with one guy his friends can come in and attack and since your tied up with one guy you can't do anything to fight the others. Or if I'm clinched up with a guy or on the ground trying a submission he can easily pull a knife out his pocket and stab you. We had a demo of that in Krav last week I was asked to put an arm bar on the instructor and try to finish it so I did and he took a plastic knife out his pocket and hit my leg with it multiple times and there was nothing I could do to stop it

That is a con.

Next time you train take a plastic knife and show it to your instructor before class. Then yell "defend yourself" And start just shanking him with it.

It is not really the arm bar that leaves you vulnerable it is the knife from pretty much anywhere is almost undefendable. Sort off.

 

[now disabled]

All good points and no one is wrong here. You need both obviously. Jon Jones recently said he loves JJ and made a comment about how he'd rather just choke someone out then trade blows with them LOL. I love striking. Always have. Boxing was favorite combat sport growing up.

Fair enough choke a person out ...but is that a sports situation or real life ? as HH said while your busy clinching up etc his mates or even some other person who thinks your the bad guy comes along and lights you up .... way better to do the needful and leave fast

 

[now disabled]

That is a con.

Next time you train take a plastic knife and show it to your instructor before class. Then yell "defend yourself" And start just shanking him with it.

It is not really the arm bar that leaves you vulnerable it is the knife from pretty much anywhere is almost undefendable. Sort off.

Are you meaning that if a knife present then that becomes the priority?

 

[Headhunter]

That is a con.

Next time you train take a plastic knife and show it to your instructor before class. Then yell "defend yourself" And start just shanking him with it.

It is not really the arm bar that leaves you vulnerable it is the knife from pretty much anywhere is almost undefendable. Sort off.

I have a much better chance of either blocking it, avoiding it or running away if I'm not tied up with the guy with my body pressed totally against him and and my legs right by his arms.