Biologists on the Verge of Creating New Form of Life

[elder999]

In reference to this post

Incidentally, some serious scientists are making up amino soup combinations and exposing them to various stimuli right now-they'll create life (that everyone can agree is life) sooner or later-doesn't make them god, and doesn't prove there isn't one-just will prove that god isn't necessarily necessary-and, misuse of Ockham's Razor notwithstanding, that doesn't mean he/she/it doesn't exist.

Seen here.:

A team of biologists and chemists is closing in on bringing non-living matter to life.
It's not as Frankensteinian as it sounds. Instead, a lab led by Jack Szostak, a molecular biologist at Harvard Medical School, is building simple cell models that can almost be called life.
Szostak's protocells are built from fatty molecules that can trap bits of nucleic acids that contain the source code for replication. Combined with a process that harnesses external energy from the sun or chemical reactions, they could form a self-replicating, evolving system that satisfies the conditions of life, but isn't anything like life on earth now, but might represent life as it began or could exist elsewhere in the universe.
While his latest work remains unpublished, Szostak described preliminary new success in getting protocells with genetic information inside them to replicate at the XV International Conference on the Origin of Life in Florence, Italy, last week. The replication isn't wholly autonomous, so it's not quite artificial life yet, but it is as close as anyone has ever come to turning chemicals into biological organisms.

Well, what's next? :lol: bwahahaha!

 

[Big Don]

Sorry, but, they aren't creating anything. The most they are doing is rearranging.

 

[elder999]

Sorry, but, they aren't creating anything. The most they are doing is rearranging.

eh...what was your PhD. in again? :lol:

I mean, yeah, they're rearranging a lot of stuff <BigDonvoicemode"on">THAT"S NOT ALIVE<BigDonvoicemode"off"> and arranging it to
<BigDonvoicemode"on">LIFE THAT"S NEVER EXISTED BEFORE IN NATURE<BigDonvoicemode"off">........but they're not "creating anything." :lol:

 

[theletch1]

eh...what was your PhD. in again? :lol:

So this conversation is open only to folks holding a PhD, then? That leaves me out.

 

[elder999]

So this conversation is open only to folks holding a PhD, then? That leaves me out.

Oh, hell no-you know what they say, "Piled Higher and Deeper?" :lol:

It's not even my field, but the ones whose field it is seem to agree....don't really know that Don's difference isn't any more than semantical-he certainly wouldn't make the same argument about a building, or a statue, or even a pot of soup.....:lol:

 

[JBrainard]

So this conversation is open only to folks holding a PhD, then? That leaves me out.

*Walking into a potential war zone* Elder is obviously pointing out that Big Don is most likely (feel free to correct me BD) going to oppose any idea that even smacks of negating the theories behind creationism.
But I could be wrong. *ducking for cover*

 

[elder999]

*Walking into a potential war zone* Elder is obviously pointing out that Big Don is most likely (feel free to correct me BD) going to oppose any idea that even smacks of negating the theories behind creationism.
But I could be wrong. *ducking for cover*

The problem I have with Don's post isn't the potential negation of creationism, or lack thereof-in fact, I'm a believer. The problem is, that like so many of his posts, it lacks elaboration-I'm not sure what he's trying to say (reference the rest of my response) and don't see how anyone else could be. If he has an opinion, what he's posted hardly expresses it-it's just a blanket pronouncement, and that implies absolute authority-hence the sarcastic question of credentials.

 

[Cryozombie]

It does remind me of the old joke tho...

A scientist calls up to god, and says "God, I have created life in my lab. Therefore we don't need you anymore."

God is intrigued so he appears to the Scientist and says "Really? Show me how you do it!"

So the scientist looks at god and says "Ok well first I take some of this dirt..."

And God interrupts him and says "No, no no... use your OWN dirt"

Bdum Ching!

 

[Big Don]

It does remind me of the old joke tho...

A scientist calls up to god, and says "God, I have created life in my lab. Therefore we don't need you anymore."

God is intrigued so he appears to the Scientist and says "Really? Show me how you do it!"

So the scientist looks at god and says "Ok well first I take some of this dirt..."

And God interrupts him and says "No, no no... use your OWN dirt"

Bdum Ching!

That and,

to make an Apple pie from scratch, you have to create the universe.

 

[theletch1]

Ha! Piled higher deeper. I like that. I might be able to elaborate on Don's first post (if I'm incorrect I'm sure you'll correct me, Don) with the help of Cryozombies' post. What they are using as their base, they didn't create. They are using a pre-existing acids/protiens/whatever and exposing it to different stimuli to see what happens, correct? Would they not, at best, re-create something that would have been around billions of years ago as life began on the planet and not something new at all?

 

[elder999]

Would they not, at best, re-create something that would have been around billions of years ago as life began on the planet and not something new at all?

There's no telling-there's speculation that it may resemble "early life," or it may have never existed,but I don't see that there's any way of ever really knowing for sure.....unless it eventually evolves into an aardvark or something. :lol:

 

[teekin]

The problem I have with Don's post isn't the potential negation of creationism, or lack thereof-in fact, I'm a believer. The problem is, that like so many of his posts, it lacks elaboration-I'm not sure what he's trying to say (reference the rest of my response) and don't see how anyone else could be. If he has an opinion, what he's posted hardly expresses it-it's just a blanket pronouncement, and that implies absolute authority-hence the sarcastic question of credentials.

I'm going to stick up for Don here. I Like debating with Don, he can get his point across with intelligence and humor. He doesn't get into pissing matches about personalities. But then I don't have a PhD either.
( my poodle outsmarts me quite often)
Lori

 

[elder999]

[/b]
I'm going to stick up for Don here. I Like debating with Don, he can get his point across with intelligence and humor. He doesn't get into pissing matches about personalities. But then I don't have a PhD either.
( my poodle outsmarts me quite often)
Lori

No pissing match- "Sorry, they're not creating anything, they're just rearranging" is hardly any kind of substantive rebuttal-it's just a blanket pronouncement. It's not worthy debate, and it's not worthy of debate. That's not to say I'm not interested in his thoughts.......
.....if he has any.:lol:

 

[theletch1]

Since I'm involved in the thread I can't (by MT policy) moderate the thread. So, as a regular member, I'm going to suggest that we cease all discussion of other members and get on with what could well shape up to be a good scientific debate.

 

[MA-Caver]

[/b]
I'm going to stick up for Don here. I Like debating with Don, he can get his point across with intelligence and humor. He doesn't get into pissing matches about personalities. But then I don't have a PhD either.
( my poodle outsmarts me quite often)
Lori

I would like to say... *ahem* ... play nice folks... it's all theoretical anyway. Just guys in lab coats trying to be better than that which created them ... whatever they believed created them.

 

[elder999]

I would like to say... *ahem* ... play nice folks... it's all theoretical anyway. Just guys in lab coats trying to be better than that which created them ... whatever they believed created them.

Oddly enough, that's not really what they're trying to do, or why. Mostly, scientists do what they do because they get wrapped around "what would happen if...?" They're doing it because they can.

In any case:

Protocellular work is even more radical than the other field trying to create artifical life: synthetic biology. Even J. Craig Venter's work to build an artificial bacterium with the smallest number of genes necessary to live takes current life forms as a template. Protocell researchers are trying to design a completely novel form of life that humans have never seen and that may never have existed.

Over the summer, Szostak's team published major papers in the journals Nature and the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences that go a long way towards showing that this isn't just an idea and that his lab will be the first to create artificial life -- and that it will happen soon.

 

[celtic_crippler]

So when I break wind in a crowded room I can blame it on God?

 

[CoryKS]

Random thoughts:

If these scientists do succeed in creating life, does that make them gods? At least to the organisms they create?

It probably wouldn't be that fun anyway. Who wants to be god to a weird brown smear in a lab slide? You need to have a critter that is at least capable of sensing your presence and abasing itself accordingly.

Since this was a collaborative effort, the critters have a pantheon of deities. What traits will they assign to each member? Will some of them band together in the name of Dr. X and kill the followers of Dr. Y? Will others proclaim lab head Dr. Sosztak the One True God, bringing forth a new age of Enlightenment and bad art? Will they ultimately reject the doctors as "invisible friends" and make little critters of their own?

 

[Cryozombie]

Random thoughts:

If these scientists do succeed in creating life, does that make them gods? At least to the organisms they create?

Thats an excellent question that could be applied to an AI as well, don't you think?

 

[elder999]

Thats an excellent question that could be applied to an AI as well, don't you think?

Really should only be applied to an AI, a term which could apply to this as yet unrealized life form, should it be realized and should it evolve into something with intelligence.

I mean, you can't be a god to something that lacks awareness, whether you "created" it or not.

But that's more like it.....