Bibliography on the origins of Wing Chun?

[ave_turuta]

Dear all,

Although I am a practitioner of TKD, I would like to politely inquire whether anyone in this forum could provide me with bibliographic references on the origins of Wing Chun. I am mostly interested in the historical aspects of how the discipline originated, going back to the 17th century; you may include sources in both English and Chinese.

Thank you very much for your help,
A.T. :asian:

 

[bcbernam777]

There is a great deal of information on the internet, unfourtuanatly the history of WC is based purly on oral tradition, of which certain aspects are intensly debated.

 

[TaiChiTJ]

go to Bennie Meng's Ving Tsun museum site. lots of info.

 

[ave_turuta]

Thank you for your kind responses. Although I have found some useful information on the internet, I am really more interested in locating any existing sources (whether written or oral) through which the narrative of the origins of the discipline has been transmitted. I should explain that I am a historian studying notions of masculinity in early modern europe, and when I read some stories on the origins of Wing Chun (which according to what I read originated at the same time that interests me in europe) I could not help but be fascinated with the figures of the two women involved in the development of the discpline. Anyhow: if you happen to hear of any source that I could locate that is not internet based, I will greatly appreciate it

p.s. yes, i know: historians are weird!

respectfully
AT

 

[Hung Fa Moose]

Check out the book Mastering Kung Fu featuring Shaolin Wing Chun. It has some good info as far as what you're looking for.

 

[Toasty]

Also look for a book called Complete Wing Chun by Robert Chu, Rene Richie & Y.Wu.

 

[spatulahunter]

yeah i can give a good detailed history of wing chun.....it just depends on which history you want :idunno: .
that is one of the problems with the art it seems that each lineage has a different history that shows why they are the supreme real wing chun.
Although you have a very valid inquiry it seems that asking the history is one of the quickest ways to turn a conversation between wing chun guys into an all out lineage battle

 

[ed-swckf]

yeah i can give a good detailed history of wing chun.....it just depends on which history you want :idunno: .
that is one of the problems with the art it seems that each lineage has a different history that shows why they are the supreme real wing chun.
Although you have a very valid inquiry it seems that asking the history is one of the quickest ways to turn a conversation between wing chun guys into an all out lineage battle

Lineage battles are so boring, all that energy could be spent training!

 

[ave_turuta]

Thank you so much too all who have responded to my inquiry. In fact, as a historian myself one of the things that interest me the most if how different peoples who at a certain time identifiy with a particular tradition come to understand the origins and developments of that tradition itself. Studying how these narratives developed, their differences and contradictions as well as similarities, is a task that I find fascinating, so having competing versions on the origins and development of wing chun is, from my perspective (rather selfishly so!) very exciting

Again, thank you for all the references you have provided.

Peace,
A.T.

 

[CuongNhuka]

If your asking what styles makes it up then this is what I understand. There are two major stories I have heard. The one I think is less likely is this one. Back when the Mongols were invading the Manchu ruled china; the Chinese forces were being decimated. They had the Mongols wildly out number, but still didn't stand much of chance. The final battle was near the capital, and thus very important. The Mongol forces were supposed to be near 10,000 (hard to believe since the Mongols tended to do best when heavily out numbered, and thus normally used small numbers of forces), the Chinese had about the same. Then a small force of Shaolin warriors arrived, about 200, and offered their service to the empire. The warrior monks of the Shoalin temple put in the front, (since their fighting skill was legendary) as a sort "exhausting line". When the battle was over, the Chinese won. The actual Chinese soldiers lost were about 1,000 man and horse. The Mongols, about 9,000. The monks, 0. The battle had made the Mongols so fearful of these warriors; they fled and did not attack again. However it had the same affect on the government. They feared the monks, since they were foreigners ruling a country that hated them, that had a force of warriors that were patriotic to the point of tears, and invincible.



The fearful government sent a large force of soldiers to attack and destroy the temple. According to legend there was also a large number Tai Chi Chaun practioners in the ranks, since they were tried of being know as the "other temple". They managed to burn the temple to the ground and kill many monks in the process. How ever the five masters managed to escape, and devolved a style that was the opposite of Shoalin. It would rely on close in strikes that use very little effort. As apposite to Shaolin's long range, some times over done strikes. Some say that they had been creating this style as a sort of "secret weapon". That made since, many of the warriors that attacked the temple were turn coat Shoalin monks.



The other version is the same; the only difference is that it was masters of 5 different styles. They were (if you believe this version) trying to systemize the hundreds of forms of Kung Fu. These masters decided to instead of systemizing Kung Fu they would instead put together the best parts of their style and create a new one, regardless of the fact that the rest of the masters that they wanted to have help with this project were not their. They taught their style in the end to a monk named Ng Wing Chun. She was taught it as means to deal with a man who was trying to force her to marry him. Sifu Ng managed to easily beat the crap out the much taller and stronger man. After that i'm not sure. But the style was of course named after it's first master.



I think the second makes more since, but what ever floats your boat. Now I haven't heard much of anything about what the other styles were that made Wing Chun, which makes it harder to believe. But if the second story is true, I have a feeling the other styles were Tai Chi Chaun, Eagle Claw Kung Fu, and Mantis Kung Fu (notice that is 3 plus Shaolin, which makes 4, and their were 5 styles, I have not come across the last style that seems to have influenced wing chun). Ohh, I almost forgot from were it says they taught Wing Chun to a monk named Ng Wing Chun, which is agreed upon between the two stories. If that is not what you wanted, then I guess that I just wasted my time.



Sweet Brighit Bless your Blade,



John

 

[gakusei]

One version

From http://ejmas.com/kronos/NewHist1700-1859.htm

About 1776:
​

According to tradition, a Buddhist nun named Ng Mui creates a southern Shaolin boxing style known as wing chun ("Beautiful Springtime"). The tradition has never been proven, and twentieth century stylistic leaders such as Yip Chun believed that a Cantonese actor named Ng Cheung created the style during the 1730s. If Yip was correct, then the female attribution could mean that Ng Cheung specialized in playing female roles, or that the ultimate master is a loving old woman rather than some muscled Adonis. Still, it is possible that some southern Chinese women practiced boxing in a group setting. During the late eighteenth century, Cantonese merchants began hiring Hakka women to work in their silkworm factories. (While ethnically Chinese, the Hakka had separate dialect and customs. Unlike most Chinese, these customs did not include binding the feet of girls. Therefore, their women were physically capable of working outside the home.) To protect themselves from kidnappers (marriage by rape remained a feature of Chinese life into the 1980s), these factory women gradually organized themselves into lay sisterhoods. Consequently, it is possible that Ng Mui was a labor organizer or head of an orphanage whose name became associated with a boxing style.



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