Basic Double Zero (Doblete)

[Guro Harold]

Please use this thread to discuss basic double zero (doblete) strikes, drills, and techniques.

Hopefully, we also use this thread to discuss the proper definition of hirada and arko too.

Basic double zeros:
- Horizontal
- Vertical
- Diagonal

Best regards,

Palusut

 

[kruzada]

I could be wrong, but "Double Zero" strikes are also known as Doblada which utilize large whipping arced slashes that are charactarized by the rotation of the forearm, to execute circular strikes.

Doblete is a totally different technique where the rotation is mainly in the wrist, creating much smaller, faster arcs than Doblada.

-Rich Acosta

 

[Guro Harold]

I could be wrong, but "Double Zero" strikes are also known as Doblada which utilize large whipping arced slashes that are charactarized by the rotation of the forearm, to execute circular strikes.

Doblete is a totally different technique where the rotation is mainly in the wrist, creating much smaller, faster arcs than Doblada.

-Rich Acosta

Hi Rich,

Thanks for the clarification.

When we did the double zero strikes combination strikes at a MARPPIO camp a few years ago, I thought that I was hearing the term doblete.

If I was wrong, I stand corrected.

-Palusut

 

[Guro Harold]

Hi Rich,

I am sharing personal observations that only relate to my experiences.

I don't think that I had ever heard or used the term, "Doblada" in terms of Modern Arnis.

That doesn't mean that it wasn't ever used in Modern Arnis but I don't recall hearing it (This is really not saying too much since this based on only eight years of Modern Arnis experience).

As I mentioned in the last post, I learned of the term, "Doblete", which I associated with "Double-Zero" strikes, while attending a MARPPIO seminar about four years ago.

I believe that discovering, confirming, refining, and clarifying information can only help MT to continually grow as one of the top online resources for Filipino Martial Arts, especially, GM Remy A Presas' beloved art, Modern Arnis!

Best regards,

Palusut

 

[Tswolfman]

whats the Difference between "Abinico" and "Doblete", if Doblete isnt a Double Zero. Is it just a Double Zero Abinico?

 

[Guro Harold]

whats the Difference between "Abinico" and "Doblete", if Doblete isnt a Double Zero. Is it just a Double Zero Abinico?

Hi Tswolfman,

Good question!

Here is my observation:

Typically an abanico has a typical range of about 180 degrees from start, but depending on the start angle or target, it can be far less than that, or potentially up to about 270 degrees, depending of the flexibility of the wrist.

Double Zeros are 360 degrees from start angle.

Best regards,

Palusut

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I use double zero strikes to change the beat or rhythm. That is how I use it most often.

 

[Mark Lynn]

Hi Tswolfman,

Good question!

Here is my observation:

Typically an abanico has a typical range of about 180 degrees from start, but depending on the start angle or target, it can be far less than that, or potentially up to about 270 degrees, depending of the flexibility of the wrist.

Double Zeros are 360 degrees from start angle.

Best regards,

Palusut

Harold
The abaniko is a strike that hits and bounces back and returns from the opposite direction to strike again. It's practiced by snapping the stick one way and than reversing the direction using the wrist and elbow to get the maximum rotation. "Abaniko Corto"

Unless you are talking about the long range abaniko drills like "Planting Rice" where you are making a much bigger arc and seem to be using more of the rotation of the forearm and the wrist.

But the main thing I believe is the reversing of the direction to hit on one side and then the other.

But the Doblete/Doblada (and I think Arko as well) strikes are circular strikes that hit through the target and continue on their path striking the target again. The Doblete I think are small circular strikes using mainly the wrist, whereas the Doblada is a much larger strike involving more of the shoulder.

The Doblete is I think the strike used in the Double Zero Abaniko combination.

GM Ernesto has an Abaniko Doblada combination where the person blocks an incoming strike and steps in and abanikos 2X to the head and then steps back and dobladas 2X, but the dobladas are a large circular strike on the opposite side of your body (the alive hand side).

And to confuse things more the Redondo seems to be the same type of a strike as the Doblada only a single strike, as the Arko type strike or block is the same as a doblete only a single strike, where the doblete/doblada are double strikes.

Mark

 

[Guro Harold]

Harold
The abaniko is a strike that hits and bounces back and returns from the opposite direction to strike again. It's practiced by snapping the stick one way and than reversing the direction using the wrist and elbow to get the maximum rotation. "Abaniko Corto"

Unless you are talking about the long range abaniko drills like "Planting Rice" where you are making a much bigger arc and seem to be using more of the rotation of the forearm and the wrist.

But the main thing I believe is the reversing of the direction to hit on one side and then the other.

But the Doblete/Doblada (and I think Arko as well) strikes are circular strikes that hit through the target and continue on their path striking the target again. The Doblete I think are small circular strikes using mainly the wrist, whereas the Doblada is a much larger strike involving more of the shoulder.

The Doblete is I think the strike used in the Double Zero Abaniko combination.

GM Ernesto has an Abaniko Doblada combination where the person blocks an incoming strike and steps in and abanikos 2X to the head and then steps back and dobladas 2X, but the dobladas are a large circular strike on the opposite side of your body (the alive hand side).

And to confuse things more the Redondo seems to be the same type of a strike as the Doblada only a single strike, as the Arko type strike or block is the same as a doblete only a single strike, where the doblete/doblada are double strikes.

Mark

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the post. Technical discussions help enrich the knowledge of the art!

Please see the points below.

Harold
The abaniko is a strike that hits and bounces back and returns from the opposite direction to strike again. It's practiced by snapping the stick one way and than reversing the direction using the wrist and elbow to get the maximum rotation. "Abaniko Corto"

There is no differences between our definitions. Please note that the only differences in our answers is that Tswolfman asked what was the differences between an abaniko and doblete or double zero strike. The range of an abaniko strike as compared to an "abaniko corto" is indeed more general, as the range of an abaniko is dependent upon the flexibility of a practitioner's wrist. Also from personal experiences, perpectual motion or positions can affect the range of an abaniko as well. Thus why I gave a general average range of about 180 degrees.

Unless you are talking about the long range abaniko drills like "Planting Rice" where you are making a much bigger arc and seem to be using more of the rotation of the forearm and the wrist.

We are agreement again, "Planting Rice" typically has a larger range of motion and involves more than just the wrist.

But the Doblete/Doblada (and I think Arko as well) strikes are circular strikes that hit through the target and continue on their path striking the target again. The Doblete I think are small circular strikes using mainly the wrist, whereas the Doblada is a much larger strike involving more of the shoulder.

The Doblete is I think the strike used in the Double Zero Abaniko combination.

GM Ernesto has an Abaniko Doblada combination where the person blocks an incoming strike and steps in and abanikos 2X to the head and then steps back and dobladas 2X, but the dobladas are a large circular strike on the opposite side of your body (the alive hand side).

And to confuse things more the Redondo seems to be the same type of a strike as the Doblada only a single strike, as the Arko type strike or block is the same as a doblete only a single strike, where the doblete/doblada are double strikes.

This is great information. I think the main question that I had was if doblada was terminology used in Modern Arnis. Even searching for the usage of the term via "Yahoo! Search" yelded results more associated with GM Ernesto Presas as compared to GM Remy A Presas' Modern Arnis.

However, individuals who have trained longer in Modern Arnis than I; or who have familiarity with the term, "Doblada"; or who have studied Modern Arnis in the Philippines can speak with more accuracy that I can offer in this matter.

Best regards,

Harold

 

[Mark Lynn]

Harold

Good discussion.

The main thing I was trying to bring out in the difference between the abaniko and the circular stikes was the abaniko hitting potentially on both sides of the object and the circular strikes hitting on one side and coming around and hitting the same side again.

The term doblada, I haven't heard used in Modern Arnis but the technique "double Zero" is the same concept. Whether it is a doblete, or doblada is a matter of question.

I used the reference of GM Ernesto's use of the term since for a long time Modern Arnis was a large part of his curriculmn (Kombatan) and since the MARPPIO reference came up I figured this terminology might be used more in the PI then by GM Remy himself over here in the states.

I still wonder though if doblada/doblete are the double strikes of Redondo and Arko.

Mark

 

[kruzada]

I think the main question that I had was if doblada was terminology used in Modern Arnis.

IMAFP uses the term Doblada in their Curriculum. This is due to the fact that most of the IMAFP Senior Masters have trained with both GM Ernesto and GM Remy.

-Rich

 

[kruzada]

I have uploaded some basic solo baston techniques to You Tube which includes Ocho-Ocho, Doblada and Doblete, just for this thread.

[yt]AiiToqQ9C8w[/yt]

Enjoy!

-Rich

 

[Guro Harold]

I have uploaded some basic solo baston techniques to You Tube which includes Ocho-Ocho, Doblada and Doblete, just for this thread.

Enjoy!

-Rich

Rich,

This is excellent!

Thank you filming and sharing this clip.

-Harold

 

[LOHAN]

Hi;
The doblata was an early term I beleave Grandmaster Ernesto used
For his Mono y Mono art.

Later it went to doblete with the famous tickie tickie dance.

I hope I spelled it right.
I have seen it so many ways--I never asked what was right.

 

[Mark Lynn]

Hi;
The doblata was an early term I beleave Grandmaster Ernesto used
For his Mono y Mono art.

Later it went to doblete with the famous tickie tickie dance.

I hope I spelled it right.
I have seen it so many ways--I never asked what was right.

I believe he still uses both terms, describing either a large circular motion or a smaller circular motion. I believe in the clip that Rich posted shows the double large circular motions (done on the stick hand side of the body) and the smaller circular motions comng across the front of his body (dobletes).

Is there a connection between the Tiki Tiki dance and the doblete?

Mark

 

[kruzada]

Rich,

This is excellent!

Thank you filming and sharing this clip.

-Harold

Thanks Harold.

I just wanted to add that although I am using this as referrence in a Modern Arnis thread. The execution of these techniques is more in line with how they are done in GM Vicente Sanchez's Kali Arnis International.

The Modern Arnis Doblada uses the entire motion of the arm, while the rotation of the Doblada that I demonstrated is mostly centered around the elbow.

The Modern Arnis Doblete that I was taught rotates around the wrist only, rotating alternately to the right and left, ending in a serrada position from which you can execute a Doblada, moving into a back stance.

-Rich