Autistic Child Arrested

[MJS]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31925271/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

SANDPOINT, Idaho - The family of an 8-year-old autistic girl who was arrested at school wants the school district and county to pay more than $500,000 in damages.
Charles and Spring Towry's third-grade daughter, Evelyn, has Asperger's syndrome, an autism spectrum disorder. She was arrested in January on suspicion of battery at Kootenai Elementary School after staffers said she spit on and inappropriately touched two instructors.

Thoughts?

 

[CoryKS]

Battery? Really? JHFC, just send the girl home for a couple days suspension. "Hi, I'm ----, I was battered by an 8-year-old." Putz.

 

[MJS]

I'm no lawyer or LEO, but I found this:

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Battery

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/assault

So, as minor as this may be, it seems that they would be justified in making an arrest. However, this, IMO, was hardly the worst example of A&B, so I can't see why the kid would have to be cuffed and brought to the PD, when you can issues a court summons in the field. Then again, a suspension would most likely have sufficed.

 

[CoryKS]

I'm no lawyer or LEO, but I found this:

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Battery

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/assault

So, as minor as this may be, it seems that they would be justified in making an arrest. However, this, IMO, was hardly the worst example of A&B, so I can't see why the kid would have to be cuffed and brought to the PD, when you can issues a court summons in the field. Then again, a suspension would most likely have sufficed.

Yeah, I understand the definition of the terms. What I don't get is being a) too incompetent to handle an eight-year-old with a behavior proplem without police involvement or b) being petty enough to sic the police on a child for spitting on you. They mention in the article that the girl also "inappropriately touched" them, but I don't know what that means. Unless she c-punched them, but then it wouldn't have been described as a touch.

 

[celtic_crippler]

If the child acted inappropriately then the school has the right to dismiss her, but is it really necessary to handcuff an 8 year old?

In this age of litigation I can understand the school calling the police to handle it to some degree, but why didn't they (or did they, the article didn't say) try to contact the parents to come get the child?

 

[jks9199]

One possibility is that the charges are simply a tool to help the family obtain services... Sometimes, the court can order services which may not be available directly to the family otherwise...

 

[MJS]

Yeah, I understand the definition of the terms. What I don't get is being a) too incompetent to handle an eight-year-old with a behavior proplem without police involvement or b) being petty enough to sic the police on a child for spitting on you.

Agreed. If you're going to work in a field that is dealing with kids like this, then IMHO, I think it'd be a good idea to a) be prepared at all times and b) know how to properly deal with things of this nature. Then again, given the fact that none of the kids these teachers are dealing with, are their own kids, its possible they could be limited as to what they can/can't do. Therefore, when the child is out of control, it may be required of the school to make that call.

They mention in the article that the girl also "inappropriately touched" them, but I don't know what that means. Unless she c-punched them, but then it wouldn't have been described as a touch.

The term they use is vauge, seeing that they didn't elaborate, so we could only assume what happened.

 

[Stac3y]

Believe it or not, some 8 year olds are really big and strong. And some of them (even some younger kids) can do significant damage to another person, especially if that person is petite or elderly. Additionally, some children who are on the autism spectrum will seriously harm themselves when upset, so restraints may have been in order to prevent that. What surprises me is that there weren't school staff who were able to physically restrain the child; most school districts require a percentage of staff, or staff who work in certain capacities, to take extensive training on de-escalation and non-harmful physical restraint.

 

[Empty Hands]

This sort of thing is becoming more and more common. What used to be handled through school discipline is more and more often being outsourced to the police, with arrest and charges. Even with young children, as we see here, and for relatively minor events like a fistfight. I'm not sure what the cause is (lawsuits?), but it is troubling.

 

[celtic_crippler]

This sort of thing is becoming more and more common. What used to be handled through school discipline is more and more often being outsourced to the police, with arrest and charges. Even with young children, as we see here, and for relatively minor events like a fistfight. I'm not sure what the cause is (lawsuits?), but it is troubling.

Lawsuits and legislation that has taken the power to discipline out of the school's hands.

 

[CanuckMA]

Zero tolerance has taken over the school system.

A few years ago when my youngest was in grade 8, one of the boys move away mid year. Later in the year, he came back for a visit. A lot of the kids greeted him with hugs, and were cited for violating the school policy on sexual harassment

 

[celtic_crippler]

Zero tolerance has taken over the school system.

A few years ago when my youngest was in grade 8, one of the boys move away mid year. Later in the year, he came back for a visit. A lot of the kids greeted him with hugs, and were cited for violating the school policy on sexual harassment

Are you serious?

Are we gettin' stupider? :uhohh:

 

[MJS]

This sort of thing is becoming more and more common. What used to be handled through school discipline is more and more often being outsourced to the police, with arrest and charges. Even with young children, as we see here, and for relatively minor events like a fistfight. I'm not sure what the cause is (lawsuits?), but it is troubling.

I see your point, but if/when things cross over to criminal offenses, don't you think the police need to be called? Now, in this case, as I said, I dont feel that this was the assault of all assaults, and most likely taken care of in the school. Now, if 2 students started fighting, with one of them ending up in the ER, I think that is worthy of more than a suspension.

I dont know the policy of this school, but as I said in another post, depending on the situation, that could be why charges were filed in this case.

 

[CanuckMA]

Are you serious?

Are we gettin' stupider? :uhohh:

Unfortunately, yes.

No, we just don't want to think anymore. Everything must be black and white.

 

[Empty Hands]

I see your point, but if/when things cross over to criminal offenses, don't you think the police need to be called?

Generally yes, but what do we consider a "criminal offense"? Everything from starting a food fight to spitting in someone's lunch to getting into a fistfight or even a kindergartener dropping their pants would be a criminal offense in an adult. Should all of those offenses result in police action? In my day (oh dear, I said it) all of those actions would be resolved by school discipline.

Sure, there are obvious cases. Someone gets hurt badly, drugs or weapons are involved, etc. The line has to be drawn higher than simple "criminal offense" however.

 

[MJS]

Generally yes, but what do we consider a "criminal offense"? Everything from starting a food fight to spitting in someone's lunch to getting into a fistfight or even a kindergartener dropping their pants would be a criminal offense in an adult. Should all of those offenses result in police action? In my day (oh dear, I said it) all of those actions would be resolved by school discipline.

Sure, there are obvious cases. Someone gets hurt badly, drugs or weapons are involved, etc. The line has to be drawn higher than simple "criminal offense" however.

I can't recall any fights during my time in school, that resulted in the PD being called. Usually it was resolved by a detention or suspension. Then again, I also don't recall people bringing weapons to school, and if they did, I never heard about it, so its amazing how the times change.

As for when the police would/would not be called...a food fight IMO, is not worthy of calling the police, short of the entire school starting to riot. Pushing someone, hitting them...we could look at things on a case by case basis. Much like a cop that pulls a car over for going thru a red light, its his discretion as to whether or not the driver gets a verbal or written warning or an actual ticket. Did the victim just get pushed and stumble forward, maybe falling down, or did they get pushed, fall down a flight of stairs, break their arm and go unconscious?

So, just like those links I posted, while the school in this case, technically may have been in the right to call the police, was it necessary? And if they were called, is it necessary to haul the kid to jail?

 

[5-0 Kenpo]

Although I agree that the situation is ridiculous, look at it from the following perspectives:

Teacher: If the teacher says or does nothing regarding an incident that may be negative, then they can be sued, and in this day held liable, for failing to take action to an event that they witnessed or were informed about. Not only that, but they put their jobs on the line.

Principle / School Administrator: See above.

Police: Technically, a crime did occur. If they don't arrest/cite/report, they subject themselves to potential liability. It is not likely that they would be fired for not doing so (in my experience), but they may suffer unpaid suspensions, negative reports in personell files, etc if someone files a complaint against the officer.

City / District Attorney: They have absolutely no liability for not filing charges. (For info, the police do not file charges. The only ones that can file charges is the City / District Attorney,) At most, they run the risk of not getting re-elected, but in cases like this, it is most unlikely.

So keeping the above in mind, is it any wonder why the people being most complained about, the teachers/administrators/police, are taking reports and having people arrested for these ridiculous things. They push the liability up the chain to those who can't be held legally liable.

As far as handcuffing of an 8-year old is concerned, I would take a look at the department policy. They may have one stating that all prisoners being transported are to be handcuffed. Why take the risk of violating policy and getting into trouble when you don't have to.

 

[Kacey]

What surprises me is that there weren't school staff who were able to physically restrain the child; most school districts require a percentage of staff, or staff who work in certain capacities, to take extensive training on de-escalation and non-harmful physical restraint.

There probably are... but speaking as one of those school staff who have been through the restraint training, 90% of the course I was sent to involved how to talk the student down; the remaining 10% was hands-on, but I strongly suspect that most of the participants remember very little, because it was too short, the practice was on each other rather than students, the focus was on touching students as little as possible (better, if possible, to remove the rest of the class, than to touch the child), and while the trainer stuck to simple techniques, if you're not familiar with the principles to begin with, the details will fade pretty quickly, making people wary, at best, of using the techniques they were taught.

In addition, I receive daily emails with articles of interest to special education teachers, which included a link to an article about this child - one with more detail that is, I think, relevant to the situation and the discussion. The article, which is from the local paper, the Bonner County Daily Bee, includes the following information, which was not in the MSN article:

At the time of the incident, Cvitanich said the girl’s safety plan called for law enforcement to be summoned if she became aggressive with school staff.

The Towrys, however, had said they were never advised of such a plan and would never have agreed to it.

In the claim, the couple said school officials sought to send a message.

“They told police they they ‘wanted to have charges pressed because they felt they were not getting their point across to Evelyn and her parents,’” the claim said.

<snip>

The couple argues their daughter’s arrest was contrary to the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act, the Americans with Disabilities Act and the Idaho Department of Education’s crisis management guidelines.

While, in general, I have problems with arresting 8 year-olds, the information contained in the local paper's article does put a different light on the situation - suggesting, at least, that this is an on-going issue that the school felt the parents were not responding to in an appropriate manner. Having worked with a few out-of-control students whose parents strongly resisted any efforts to change their child's behavior, I can understand the school's decision - but without considerably more information on what occurred in the past, I would have difficulty agreeing with it in the case of a child that young who has a diagnosis of a disability that affects her ability to comprehend and comply with behavioral norms.

 

[MJS]

Although I agree that the situation is ridiculous, look at it from the following perspectives:

Teacher: If the teacher says or does nothing regarding an incident that may be negative, then they can be sued, and in this day held liable, for failing to take action to an event that they witnessed or were informed about. Not only that, but they put their jobs on the line.

Principle / School Administrator: See above.

Police: Technically, a crime did occur. If they don't arrest/cite/report, they subject themselves to potential liability. It is not likely that they would be fired for not doing so (in my experience), but they may suffer unpaid suspensions, negative reports in personell files, etc if someone files a complaint against the officer.

City / District Attorney: They have absolutely no liability for not filing charges. (For info, the police do not file charges. The only ones that can file charges is the City / District Attorney,) At most, they run the risk of not getting re-elected, but in cases like this, it is most unlikely.

So keeping the above in mind, is it any wonder why the people being most complained about, the teachers/administrators/police, are taking reports and having people arrested for these ridiculous things. They push the liability up the chain to those who can't be held legally liable.

As far as handcuffing of an 8-year old is concerned, I would take a look at the department policy. They may have one stating that all prisoners being transported are to be handcuffed. Why take the risk of violating policy and getting into trouble when you don't have to.

You're right. In todays world, its better to have a paper trail of any incidents. As for the rest...yes, you're right again regarding policies. I suppose on the surface its easy to forget about those important things, but in reality when dealing with an incident like this, we do need to remember that it may be the policy of the school to call the police and the policy of the PD to cuff, arrest, etc. in cases like this, despite them appearing to be minor in nature.

 

[MJS]

There probably are... but speaking as one of those school staff who have been through the restraint training, 90% of the course I was sent to involved how to talk the student down; the remaining 10% was hands-on, but I strongly suspect that most of the participants remember very little, because it was too short, the practice was on each other rather than students, the focus was on touching students as little as possible (better, if possible, to remove the rest of the class, than to touch the child), and while the trainer stuck to simple techniques, if you're not familiar with the principles to begin with, the details will fade pretty quickly, making people wary, at best, of using the techniques they were taught.

Good point. IMO, I think that many times, the physical portion is the part that tends to be neglected, when in reality, when you're working in this type of an environment, that physical part is the most important.

In addition, I receive daily emails with articles of interest to special education teachers, which included a link to an article about this child - one with more detail that is, I think, relevant to the situation and the discussion. The article, which is from the local paper, the Bonner County Daily Bee, includes the following information, which was not in the MSN article:



While, in general, I have problems with arresting 8 year-olds, the information contained in the local paper's article does put a different light on the situation - suggesting, at least, that this is an on-going issue that the school felt the parents were not responding to in an appropriate manner. Having worked with a few out-of-control students whose parents strongly resisted any efforts to change their child's behavior, I can understand the school's decision - but without considerably more information on what occurred in the past, I would have difficulty agreeing with it in the case of a child that young who has a diagnosis of a disability that affects her ability to comprehend and comply with behavioral norms.

IMO, and only going on what I've seen so far, I think this is a case of denial or don't tell me how to raise my kid. Some people are so stubborn and blind to their own faults, that when someone else tries to point things out to them, they do want to hear it.