Are you sure?

[Xue Sheng]

Are you sure what you train is going to protect you for whatever you may come across? (within reason of course)

Now I know no one can be 100% sure but relatively sure for situations that involve an empty hand attack, a knife attack, a stick attack, a gun attack, outside, inside, in the rain, the snow, flat ground, uneven ground, etc.

I’m not loosing any sleep over this but I can honestly say for empty hand, some other conditions, yes but the rest it has been years since I trained SD for anything beyond empty hand so I am not sure.

Recently, I was up against a person that I would consider a better martial artist than I am by far but the best we could reach was a stalemate. And I think from his side of things it had more to do with time in training the same system and only that system for many years and having no training against anyone outside of that system (and it was not Taiji or Xingyi). For me it was I had a combination of Taiji and Xingyi and that messed him up but he was skilled enough to stop me and we reached a point where if either moved the other would attack.

I think this left us both thinking

So how sure are you?

And please be honest because if your not you are only fooling yourself

 

[CoryKS]

Are you sure what you train is going to protect you for whatever you may come across?

Nope. But I'm pretty sure sitting on my *** drinking beer wasn't going to do it either.

 

[Flying Crane]

And please be honest because if your not you are only fooling yourself

ah, well, you are only fooling yourself if you are in denial.

I'm not sure of anything when it comes to my own abilities. What I AM sure of is that what I study and practice gives me some pretty damn powerful tools to use. It's my own ability to use those tools that I'll openly admit, I don't honestly know how well I can use them.

I don't go around looking for fights, and that's the only way to REALLY know...

 

[alphacat]

Most of the fights that I've been into were bare-handed and I can definitely say that knowing martial art back then would have been helping me to win those fights since what most guys do when fighting is to storm at you with all they got (so an elbow to their face or a front kick to there stomach is all it takes to stop there outburst).

I believe that martial arts can protect you from anyone, as long as he doesn’t carry a gun.

--
By the way, even Jordan missed a free throw every now and then, so it doesn’t mean that a martial artist is gonna win all his street fights.

 

[Big Don]

I know how well I do sparring in a controlled environment with my fellow students and instructors. I also remember how poorly I used to do against the same people...

 

[Xinglu]

I'm not certain. I know that to date I have been able to handle the untrained individuals very well who have attacked me. I have at times also done well against trained opponents, though it is in controlled sparring and not SD. I have also done very poorly against trained opponents.

I conclude that I only know that I don't know. Each SD situation is different, and my psychic abilities are failing me. :wink:

What Michael says rings true for me as well. I have some powerful tools, I will yet gain some more powerful tools. I hope to be able to use them effectively, and I train that I may. I am confident in what I have learned and it's effectiveness but certainty in my own abilities eludes me.

 

[still learning]

Hello, One thing for SURE? ...with martial art training....is sure better than NONE or No training for sure...

Years ago....NOT sure what to do.....today for sure? ....I know NOTHING for sure? ....just kidding...maybe a little bit more than before...

At least any training will prepare you to survive with a better chance.

Prepareness....is what we do in martial training....

Also impossible to prepare for everything out there.... as individuals....we are training our minds and body for some success of survival.

Learning to swim is good, get thrown into the water? ..their is a good chance of survival...the ocean can be bigger too..
(NO lessons in swimming? ...your chance of survival is smaller...)

Depending on your own training and intensity....the answer for "sure"?...is alot better...than the day before your first MA classes...

Aloha, ....surfing in Hawaii..is year round....just the surf is not up everyday for sure...( just gotta be ready)

 

[jeorf]

I'm with Big Don on this one. I have no thoughts about translation between in and out of the dojang. That said, I absolutely did not go into the martial arts for that reason. I only hope that my training will help keep me from harm and will help me to maintain my sense of self if I do come to harm.

 

[Milt G.]

Are you sure what you train is going to protect you for whatever you may come across? (within reason of course)

Now I know no one can be 100% sure but relatively sure for situations that involve an empty hand attack, a knife attack, a stick attack, a gun attack, outside, inside, in the rain, the snow, flat ground, uneven ground, etc.

I’m not loosing any sleep over this but I can honestly say for empty hand, some other conditions, yes but the rest it has been years since I trained SD for anything beyond empty hand so I am not sure.

Recently, I was up against a person that I would consider a better martial artist than I am by far but the best we could reach was a stalemate. And I think from his side of things it had more to do with time in training the same system and only that system for many years and having no training against anyone outside of that system (and it was not Taiji or Xingyi). For me it was I had a combination of Taiji and Xingyi and that messed him up but he was skilled enough to stop me and we reached a point where if either moved the other would attack.

I think this left us both thinking

So how sure are you?

And please be honest because if your not you are only fooling yourself

Hello,

Nothing is a given...
My goal is to develop as many tools as I can in the hope that when "the chips are down" I can find the right tool for the "project" in my tool box. And find it quickly.

I am not ensuring victory, just evening up the chances a bit. I think one of the biggest assets one can have is the element of "surprise".

Honestly, there are so many possible scenarios, and possible situations one can never know for sure. Just strive to be as prepared as possible.

Those who think they have it all "handled", are only fooling themselves IMO.

Good topic, thank you.
Milt G.

 

[Aikicomp]

One can never be sure of anything when it comes to a self-defense situation. All you can do is train with the best of intentions, learn your techniques and practice what you have learned and have the proper mind set when and if a situation arises.

I, unfortunately, have had my skills tested more times than I would have wished and thankfully I was able to come out relatively unscathed.

I thank nick every day for the things he taught me, that allowed me to come home to my family.

Am I confident I have the ability and mindset to defend myself...Yes.
Am I sure I will win every situation...No. but, so far, so good.

I know when I was attacked I gave all I had with the skills I had and if I do not prevail one day at least I know I will have used all my knowledge and skill to do the best I could to protect myself....and that is enough for me.


Michael

 

[Hyper_Shadow]

I don't think anyone can say for sure whether they are ever truly prepared for it until it has happened. Personally, I haven't had to fight on the street since I was in my late teens.
What I can say for sure is I'm better than I was then, stronger and faster too. With a wider array of knowledge and conditioned muscle memory. So I'm fairly confident I'd be alright.
Besides, failing that, I can still sprint like you wouldn't believe, so they'd have a hard time fighting what isn't there to start with!
And if I have to fight,I'm not defending anything, I'm making sure that the scum who's attacking me isn't able to attack anyone else.

'It's not a good day to be a bad guy...'

 

[elder999]

Are you sure what you train is going to protect you for whatever you may come across? (within reason of course)

Yep.

So how sure are you?

And please be honest because if your not you are only fooling yourself

As sure as I am that I won't break my thumbs tying my shoelaces......honestly.

 

[Jenna]

Are you sure what you train is going to protect you for whatever you may come across? (within reason of course)

Now I know no one can be 100% sure but relatively sure for situations that involve an empty hand attack, a knife attack, a stick attack, a gun attack, outside, inside, in the rain, the snow, flat ground, uneven ground, etc.

I’m not loosing any sleep over this but I can honestly say for empty hand, some other conditions, yes but the rest it has been years since I trained SD for anything beyond empty hand so I am not sure.

Recently, I was up against a person that I would consider a better martial artist than I am by far but the best we could reach was a stalemate. And I think from his side of things it had more to do with time in training the same system and only that system for many years and having no training against anyone outside of that system (and it was not Taiji or Xingyi). For me it was I had a combination of Taiji and Xingyi and that messed him up but he was skilled enough to stop me and we reached a point where if either moved the other would attack.

I think this left us both thinking

So how sure are you?

And please be honest because if your not you are only fooling yourself

I think there exist only a finite number of attack patterns [that will differ slightly depending upon the individual's cifrcumstances and environs]. A huge volume of potential attacks can be disregarded as being "separate" since they are actually mere variants, nuances or combinations of the former. The most difficult task is in identifying that finite set of possible attack patterns as applicable to you. Yet it can be done yes.

There are in reality only a few ways that a blade can be thrust. There are only a few ways that a blade can be slashed or drawn across [few are competent at utilising multiple blades in attack]. I only mean that there are finite possibilities. When you feel confident with those then everything else is a variant.

For multiple attackers, while there may be >2 in the adversarial party, no more than 2 will be unable to attack you simultaneously with any level of proficiency or organisation [one can be utilised as a buffer or shield if you will to the other etc].

Again, I think the difficult task is in whittling away those attack patterns which are not "elemental" and but rather compounds of other pure attack forms. The secondary task is to work on potential combinations of that finite set.

And so yes, perhaps this sounds hypertheorised and overcomplicated yet starting from a base of infinite potential attack patterns I think it is an enabler for your perfect defence. Yes this is a difficult task yet not impossible. And even to take time to consider your potential risk-set I think is a prudent exercise at any rate irrespective of the outcome.

For me yes I am always working towards the perfect personal defensive shield. I would be arrogant and ill-advised to imagine I possessed such a thing, still.. one day. Meantime, I know where the gaps are.

How can I be sure? Through simple, as-near-as exhaustive empirical testing. For example, though I have not fired a live pistol I still have the scars on my arm and hand from our BB gun days. Foolish? Perhaps. Though I would never be so deluded as to equate friendly rule-bound matplay for Camden streetcorners.

An interesting question as always Jenna x

 

[Zero]

Good question but it's always hard to answer these ones that have hypothetical components or require crystal ball gazzing.

I see SD scenarios as all-encompassing and feel that SD concepts/training should be there to save you from all situations - not just human attackers; ie reflexes when that car gets out of control and careens onto the curb so you jump out of the way or onto the hood instead of being crushed (or you are aware enough to save yourself and your kid etc). Having the skills to escape from a submerged or burning vehicle etc.

There's a lot out there aside from human interaction that will kill you quick but at the same time if you have the mindset or experience you can survive.

To be honest, and maybe controversial, maybe not, I tend to think there are many MA students that are completely, or almost completely, unable to handle themselves in what would be normal SD situations. WHile great fgor the ring, many "sport" practitioners have no idea about situational awareness, de-fusing skills, image projection etc. Even those who engage in Mas which have SD application and core training may be sorely lacking in a "real" situation and I am sure that must include some on this site.

I'm not knocking anyone in particular or meaning to offend and by no means am I questioning the ability of many of the site members (and I am not trying to infer that I am anyting great or capable either), this is just my observation from many of those who have trained at the clubs I have been with over the years and also from visitng and training with and also competing with many different clubs in different areas.

I agree with the above posts that something is always (almost) better than nothing - unless that something gives one an over inflated sense of self ability. I've been at MA clubs where members have been royally served on the street by finding themsleves in situations they should have avoided or thinking they were proficient enough in their art to control the situation.

I think many need to have a reality check when it comes to dealing with a vicious street attack from a large sized aggressor or aggressors. Many also need to up their training both physicaly and mentally to be prepared for this, although hopefully this never occurs. Again not commenting directly re anyone on this site but from what I have seen at numerous clubs it must likely also apply here.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I can only say that having had to defend myself on more than one occasion over the years using the same karate based striking skill set that I have studied since I was a kid and still currently stuy, I can safely say that they are effective tools.

I have never been in a situation where I actually had to use joint locks or grapples to survive, though I am fairly certain that the ones that I have been training in at my school are also effective tools. My only basis is that we do a goodly amount of live sparring in our hapkido class, and with minimal pads. I find that the greatest tool that I have picked up in hapkido is that when free sparring, I can prevent my partner from getting a hold on me most of the time, and can get out of holds that are attempted.

Daniel

 

[MJS]

Are you sure what you train is going to protect you for whatever you may come across? (within reason of course)

Now I know no one can be 100% sure but relatively sure for situations that involve an empty hand attack, a knife attack, a stick attack, a gun attack, outside, inside, in the rain, the snow, flat ground, uneven ground, etc.

I’m not loosing any sleep over this but I can honestly say for empty hand, some other conditions, yes but the rest it has been years since I trained SD for anything beyond empty hand so I am not sure.

Recently, I was up against a person that I would consider a better martial artist than I am by far but the best we could reach was a stalemate. And I think from his side of things it had more to do with time in training the same system and only that system for many years and having no training against anyone outside of that system (and it was not Taiji or Xingyi). For me it was I had a combination of Taiji and Xingyi and that messed him up but he was skilled enough to stop me and we reached a point where if either moved the other would attack.

I think this left us both thinking

So how sure are you?

And please be honest because if your not you are only fooling yourself

The arts that I train in have been proven already. What matters though, is whether or not I can make it work. IMHO, it all comes down to how each individual trains the material. I think it'd be difficult if not impossible to train for every imaginable situation.

Empty hand...well, I'm still here typing this so something worked. Weapons...well, I'm thankful that I've yet to be attacked with a weapon, however, when I do train weapons defense, we train them as realistic as possible. Will that prove effective when the poop hits the fan? Dont know, but the same could be said about empty hand as well.

 

[Xue Sheng]

The arts that I train in have been proven already. What matters though, is whether or not I can make it work. IMHO, it all comes down to how each individual trains the material. I think it'd be difficult if not impossible to train for every imaginable situation.

That about covers my feeling on the topic right there.



I was wondering what type of responses I would get to this question and I was not exactly sure it would not turn into a flame fest, but I am very glad it didn't...thanks everybody :asian:

This type of thinking, on my part, may or may not change my training but the jury is still out on that one, could be I am looking for a justification for my eternal curiosity for MA too I guess but either way I am thinking about this. But like I said I am not loosing any sleep over it and I have been of the belief for years that no matter how much you train there will always be someone out there that is bigger, or tougher, or faster, or more skilled or just plain luckier on any given day and I can’t do anything about it so why worry.


Thanks