Any RMA schools and/or study groups in NYC other then FightHouse?

[alexk]

Hi everyone!

I'd like to know what are the options to study RMA (not just Systema, but possibly ROSS or anything like that) in Manhattan or Brooklyn area?

The Fighthouse is not an option for me for two reasons:

1. After two years of trying to learn Systema with Edgar, I came to a conclusion that going to his classes is a waste of my time and money.

2. As of yesterday, I'm no longer welcomed at the Fighthouse, even for the seminars. While registering for the Emmanuel's seminar, I answered another student's question "how come you didn't go to training?" with a truthful answer (see 1.) This reaction of the Fighthouse owners seems rather silly and immature to me, but hey that’s their place and they can run any way they want, even if it means refusing to sell to a customer just because he doesn’t like one of their products. :rofl:

My goal is not to start a flame war – not a practical thing to do,- but to collect information about my options.


-- Alex.

 

[alexk]

well, I guess no options here.

 

[rutherford]

Train with Vlad and convince him to let you open your own school.

 

[RachelK]

Systema is a small community, Alex. Tread carefully and think before you speak or post. That's all the advice I can offer you, but I hope it helps.
Good luck with your training.
-Rachel

 

[NYCRonin]

Hmmm, odd lil thread...kinda frayed.

AlexK -- As one of the few authorized to pass Systema along, living in the NYC area...I must state that Edgars skills as a teacher have met with the approval of BOTH Vlad and Misha Ryabco, as well.
I have encountered and worked with a number of his students, and found that they are developing well. If I did not have an unusual work schedule, I would be able to find the time to visit FightHouse and know I would enjoy the time there. Edgar also has hosted seminars led by some of the better known Systema guides: Emmanuel M., Jim K., Martin W. and Scotty C. - to name a few. I have known these guys for years...and they would not travel to NYC to work a seminar for just anybody. They also speak well of the group at FightHouse, as do I.

I (personally) wonder 'why' you feel the 2 years were a waste of time? By extension, I might also wonder just what you feel Systema is - since you felt something was missing.

Since you have no desire to start a 'flame war' - I would ask any reply be sent by PM. Thats your choice, of course.

But again, since VV and MR (and many who know Edgar) are satisfied with the ability to pass along Systema -- and was authorized to do so by the leaders of our life-art.....perhaps Systema may not be exactly what you are seeking. It is really not everyones cup of tea.

As far as shutting you out of any seminars that are hosted at FightHouse goes...that is Edgars choice, of course. Systema is not a 'product' - and hardly a business one does to make substantial money, like a conventional customer service business is. As the host of any seminar, it is up to the ones throwing the seminar to decide who should be included...and buying a ticket to ride is not the same as paying a seminar fee -- again Edgars choice.

Your options? Well, Vlad does seminars around the USA...and can be found in Toronto. Since you are looking overall for RMA in the Manhattan or Bklyn area (and it seems Edgar is the only one teaching Systema, presently; in an open venue - and you are no longer interested in studying there...Systema in your chosen area seems out of the picture for you). Now, I dont know of any ROSS groups in NYC area - but there might be. SAMBO is available. In fact, there is a 'Combat SAMBO' school in the Sheepshead bay area of Bklyn...accessable by the Q train Sheepshead Bay station..right next to it, in fact. A look at the Yellow Pages might also reveal a few schools that offer Buza or other RMA in and around the Sheephead Bay/ Gravesend / Brighton Beach area.

I wish you well in your search.

 

[Jonathan Randall]

Systema is a small community, Alex. Tread carefully and think before you speak or post. That's all the advice I can offer you, but I hope it helps.
Good luck with your training.
-Rachel

That's good advice.:asian:

 

[alexk]

Hi Rob!

I might send you a PM later where I'd ask you some specific questions.
However, since you chose to reply publicly to my post, I feel it’s quite appropriate to address some of your questions here.


You said:


[FONT=&quot]

I (personally) wonder 'why' you feel the 2 years were a waste of time? By extension, I might also wonder just what you feel Systema is - since you felt something was missing.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I don't feel that the 2 years were a waste of time. I think Systema is a great art and learned a lot from doing it. I just no longer see my studying with Edgar at the Fighthouse as a good use of my time and money.

Here are MY reasons for thinking that Edgar is not a great teacher for MY goals:
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
1. Poor communication skills.
Everything that I know about Systema principles, I learned either on the web or at the seminars. Maybe it's because man's English is poor and he feels shy and self-concious or maybe he is just not a great communicator.
Actually, I think he is a nice guy, but it takes more than that to teach.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
2. Lack of advanced students in class.
Most of the time the only people in class are either rank beginners or people who've studied for a while, but don't quite get it( I put myself in that category).
I simply don't know anyone who attends Fighthouse regularly and is capable of using the Systema skills aquired there to defend themselves.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
3. Great contrast in the quality of Systema I get from seminars and what Edgar can teach. I know what a real Systema should look and feel like and it's not what I'm getting in his class.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
4. Lack of a sensible methodology of training.
It's very frustrating when he tries to teach a highly sophisticated pattern to people who are not completely comfortable with the basic moves. Most students I could observe in class end up trying to rigidly follow the steps Edgar showed, [/FONT]
essentially turning it into an improvised partner assisted kata. That can be quite frustrating and is definitely not Systema.

[FONT=&quot]I feel Edgar is either out of touch with the skill level and the needs of his students or he doesn't know what should come after what, or he simply doesn't care.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
You also said:
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]

As far as shutting you out of any seminars that are hosted at FightHouse goes...that is Edgars choice, of course. Systema is not a 'product' - and hardly a business one does to make substantial money, like a conventional customer service business is. As the host of any seminar, it is up to the ones throwing the seminar to decide who should be included...and buying a ticket to ride is not the same as paying a seminar fee -- again Edgars choice.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
Well, I aggree that it is a choice, I just think it's a pretty lame choice that shows a great deal of insecuriy on the part of the one who makes it.
When you set youself up as a teacher you should be prepared to receive negative feedback of your performance. If you have a right attitude, it immensely more valuable than compliments. That's how you become better.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
However, I don't believe it's Edgar's choice. The person who does the choosing at Fighthouse is Peggy - a great systema luminary.
Edgar is her employee, for all practical purposes.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
So here it goes. I know that Systema is a great style, but not the only one available. And since, there are no places in NY that can teach it at level that is acceptable to me, I'll seek other styles.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
Good luck with you training and be well.
-- Alex.
[/FONT]

 

[arnisador]

What is the value of airing all this dirty laundry in public?

 

[Mark Jakabcsin]

[FONT=&quot]

Here are MY reasons for thinking that Edgar is not a great teacher for MY goals:
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
1. Poor communication skills.
Everything that I know about Systema principles, I learned either on the web or at the seminars. Maybe it's because man's English is poor and he feels shy and self-concious or maybe he is just not a great communicator.
Actually, I think he is a nice guy, but it takes more than that to teach.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]

Alex,
I know I have your problem solved!! The above statement clearly illustrates the problem. I'm sorry to say, it's not Edgar's communications skill but your listening skills that are the problem. When I trained in Russia many of the folks spoke ZERO English, which matched my zero Russian, and yet they taught me more than I could ever write or explain. This is because I listened with all of my heart and ability.

It very much sounds like you are looking to be spoon fed verbal explaination, I know you will claim otherwise, but your statement above says it all. Systema is at it's best when the student shoulder's the responsibility of learning and struggles through the lessons. Spoon feeding is ineffective, lazy and doesn't lead to individual learning. Systema learning is personal, hence, YOU, as an individual must squeeze the knowledge out from each lesson. This is very consistant with my lessons from Vladimir, Mikhail, and a host of senior instructors. They give me clues and hints but it's up to me to find the knowledge. That is the only way it will have real meaning and be of real value.

The instructor's role is to create a postive learning environment and to create 'opportunities' for learning, it's up to the student to sieze that opportunity. Having trained with Edgar on several occassions I am positive he is capable of doing so and does so at each class. Furthermore, I, personally have learned a good deal from Edgar and value each opportunity I have to train with him. If you are incapable of seeing the value of Edgar, so be it, but my recommendation is to look inward at yourself, for that is where you will find answers, not by looking out and placing blame on others for your own deficiencies.

As for the rest of your comments they all relate back to your poor listening skills and inability to self-reflect. I wish I could help you understand but in the end it is up to you. You either will or you won't, but I promise you that if you eventually find what you seek, you will be looking inward. Good luck on your journey.

Mark J

 

[NYCRonin]

"[FONT=&quot] And since, there are no places in NY that can teach it at level that is acceptable to me,.......".

Again, I remind you that VV and MR are pleased enough with Edgars ability to pass along Systema to authorize him to do so. When I do visit FightHouse...on those all too rare ocassions, I attempt to get around to many there..and am also enjoying the level of 'the work' that a number of his students demonstrate. Even at Vlads school...there are those that get it...and some that dont (yet). Perhaps you do not like the way Edgar teaches....you might have been more comfortable doing the work in knee deep snow at Marine Park in Brooklyn - where I once conducted my sessions. My manner is abit *ahem* louder and more brash than Edgars might be...then again, you might not have 'liked' my work either.

I wonder though..about the statement of what is 'acceptable' to you. But it is pretty much a moot point (and I hate pointing at 'moot's' -- it makes them very self concious).

My friend Mark has made some points to consider....good ones.
And you, AlexK have made yours also...as I feel I have made mine.

And before this thread disintegrates into something what serves no purpose - I as the Mod here, am requesting the thread be locked.

If you wish further Systema instruction, AlexK - keep an eye to seminars mentioned here. You might be able to get to some of them. I might begin doing ocassional seminars next year...once I retire from NYC Corrections in 2006.

In the meantime, Systema is not the only form of RMA available in NYC area....and you might find something of interest if you look into it.
Good luck.
Rob (RobG) Green
NYC





[/FONT]