An "extreme" newbie.

[Dellian]

Hello one and all, I found this site and have to say I am impressed.
I have some questions regarding Ninjutsu.
This art has been a dream of mine for so long and I have just realised that the average person can begin to learn it.

I am quite naturally thin, skinny and light how will this affect me? (very little muscles) :uhyeah:

Do the average dojo's (is it called a dojo for ninjutsu?) help train your mind as well as your body?

This may sound ignorant but how long until one will be able to train under weapons? Bokkens...

Any advice for the newbie before beginning with this art?

How much has learning Ninjutsu changed you?

Also does it matter how it is written? Ninjutsu, Ninjitsu?

Ok this is all I have.
Thank you all so much in advance.

 

[terryl965]

Well I really cannot help with your question but thought I would say hello and welcome to MT

 

[mrhnau]

Do the average dojo's (is it called a dojo for ninjutsu?) help train your mind as well as your body?

Depends on the group. Mine did not, and I was glad for that personally.

This may sound ignorant but how long until one will be able to train under weapons? Bokkens...

Again, depends on the group. I was working with weapons after about a month.

Also does it matter how it is written? Ninjutsu, Ninjitsu?

Ninjitsu tends to be the americanized version, kind of a free adaptation. Ninjutsu tends to be have its origins in X-kans.
[/quote]

Nice having you on board

 

[exile]

Hi Dellian, welcome to MT! There are a lot of people on this board who do ninjutsu---you should have no trouble at all getting a ton of information on the art. I can't tell you anything about it, but if you're going to do MAs, it's never harmful to do some strength training along with it. You might think about setting up a program for yourself...

Anyway, it's good to have you with us.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Well the best bet is to find an authentic Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu Dojo in your area and try a class to see if it is for you. After that your instructor (if you decide to train) will be able to answer most of your questions.

I will take a shot at a few of your questions before then.

Training with tools generally begins right from the get go. (in my experience)

Your bodyweight and frame as you become accustomed to using it will not hinder your training. You may be surprised on how you develop your physique after you begin training. (especially your leg muscles from all of the rolling and standing up)

Your mind will be trained right along with your body. This is something you find in almost all quality martial arts schools. (once again this is based on my experience)

Ninjutsu is written without the i towards the end. This means that Ninjitsu is incorrect and actually is used by many people who do not have legitimate training. You would be advised to choose one of the X-Kan's (Bujinkan, Genbukan, Jinekan) as they all train under the lineage of Takamatsu. I personally train in Budo Taijutsu of the Bujinkan (and could not be happier) which is under the direct lineage holder of the Takamatsu traditions Soke Masaaki Hatsumi. The Genbukan and the Jinekan have branched off from the Bujinkan and each have their own respective leaders. (Soke Tanemura and Soke Manaka both of whom are accomplished martial artists)

I hope that I have been some help and that you can find some authentic training in your area.

 

[Dellian]

Wow, thanks for the already answered questions!

I have one more... Just the one.

When looking for some Dojo's what are some questions I should inquire upon about Ninjutsu to find out which has the most (in search for a better word) potential?

Once again thank you.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Wow, thanks for the already answered questions!

I have one more... Just the one.

When looking for some Dojo's what are some questions I should inquire upon about Ninjutsu to find out which has the most (in search for a better word) potential?

Once again thank you.

Well with Budo Taijutsu Dojo's I would ask if their Instructor makes regular trips to Japan and that his/her Shidoshikai card is current.

If those are good and the Dojo atmosphere is right for you then it will probably be a great place to train.

 

[Dellian]

I'm sorry but I do not understand the whole "Budo Taijutsu" nor "Shidoshikai card"
My apologies.

 

[Jade Tigress]

Well I really cannot help with your question but thought I would say hello and welcome to MT

What he said.

I don't know anything about ninjutsu training but fortunately we have some members here who know much about it. Just wanted to say welcome.

 

[Drac]

Alas I am unable to offer anything but Greetings and Welcome...

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I'm sorry but I do not understand the whole "Budo Taijutsu" nor "Shidoshikai card"
My apologies.

The Shidoshikai card proves that a teacher is current or has paid their yearly dues within the Bujinkan.

Bujinkan is the organization that Soke Hatsumi developed to spread Budo Taijutsu (ninjutsu and samurai based arts)

There are nine ryu-ha (schools) within Budo Taijutsu. They are the following:

Togakure-ryu Ninpo Happo Biken was founded in the late 1100's by Daisuke Nishina. The second oldest Ryu in Masaaki Hatsumi's Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu system. This school is most famous in Bujinkan for the different Ninjutsu weapons as the Shuko, Shinodake, Shuriken, etc.

Gyokko-ryu Kosshijutsu Happo Biken was founded in the mid 1100's by Tozawa Hakuunsai. The oldest Ryu in Masaaki Hatsumi's Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu system. Most famous for the Kihon Happo, Sanshin no kata, and Muto Taihenjutsu which are considered as the basics in the Bujinkan system.

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Kukishin-ryu Taijutsu Happo Biken was founded in the mid 1300's by Izumo Kanja Yoshitero. Most famous in Bujinkan for the many different weapon techniques. [/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Shindenfudo-ryu Dakentaijutsu Happo Biken was founded in the beginning of 1100 by Izumo Kaja Yoshitero. Most famous in Bujinkan for the rough Dakentaijutsu techniques. [/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Gyokushin-ryu Ninpo Happo Biken was founded in the mid 1500's by Sasaki Goemon Teruyoshi. Very little of this school have been taught to the western world. It is believed that this school was more into information gathering and planning than actual combat. [/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Koto-ryu Koppojutsu Happo Biken was founded in the mid 1500's by Sakagami Taro Kunishige. Most famous in Bujinkan for the Koppojutsu (bone breaking techniques), and unusual Biken (sword) style of fighting. [/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Gikan-ryu Koppo Taijutsu Happo Biken was founded in the mid 1500's by Uryu Hangan Gikanbo. This school is also specialized in Koppojutsu. [/FONT]

Kumogakure-ryu Ninpo Happo Biken was founded in the mid 1500's by Iga Heinaizaemon No Jo Ienaga. Most famous in Bujinkan for the Kamayari, and jumping techniques.

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Takagiyoshin-ryu Jutaijutsu Happo Biken was founded in the beginning of 1600 by Takagi Oriuemon Shigenobu. Most famous in Bujinkan as a "Bodyguard School/Samurai" with fast and effective Jujitsu techniques, and Daishosabaki (Jujitsu while wearing both swords in the belt).[/FONT]

I hope that helps and gives you an overview of Budo Taijutsu! Good luck.

 

[Dellian]

Ah! Thank you!

And thank you all for the very, very warm welcome!

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Your welcome and we are glad to have you aboard on MartialTalk!

 

[Don Roley]

When looking for some Dojo's what are some questions I should inquire upon about Ninjutsu to find out which has the most (in search for a better word) potential?

Ask the teacher about his training. Does he go to it now, or has he largely stopped going to train because he feels he does not have to.

I have to disagree with Brian about going to Japan. As long as the guy goes to a teacher, and that teacher goes to someone to train all the way back to the top of the art (living in Japan) then I think it is a good sign. Someone who does not think they need any more instruction from someone more experienced in the art just is not training with IMO.

You can find out easily from most people just how often they go to train with someone. If they start being cagey and vauge, that is a warning sign. Try to find out if they actually train with someone in good faith, or if they merely show up to the bare minimum to be able to use the name.

Always look for honesty in the teacher and a willingness to learn more. Those are the most important things to have IMO.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Ask the teacher about his training. Does he go to it now, or has he largely stopped going to train because he feels he does not have to.

I have to disagree with Brian about going to Japan. As long as the guy goes to a teacher, and that teacher goes to someone to train all the way back to the top of the art (living in Japan) then I think it is a good sign. Someone who does not think they need any more instruction from someone more experienced in the art just is not training with IMO.

You can find out easily from most people just how often they go to train with someone. If they start being cagey and vauge, that is a warning sign. Try to find out if they actually train with someone in good faith, or if they merely show up to the bare minimum to be able to use the name.

Always look for honesty in the teacher and a willingness to learn more. Those are the most important things to have IMO.

Hey Don no question that is a better way to word it. Training in Japan regularly or training with a senior instructor who goes to Japan regularly to train with Hatsumi Sensei. Every instructor should be trying to stay current with what is taught in Japan as best they can. I do know how it feels to miss a trip and rely on training with other people who have just been to Japan. That can be absolutely fantastic training and can stimulate your learning experience.:asian:

 

[Cryozombie]

This art has been a dream of mine for so long and I have just realised that the average person can begin to learn it.

Can I play devils advocate for a moment? I don't mean to come across as a Nixon, most of the guys here will tell you I try and be helpful, but somthing comes to mind...

If you know NOTHING about the art... why did you choose it? Was it at random? or because of the "made up" ninja image? Why was this your choice?

 

[Rich Parsons]

**** Off Topic - My Apologies ****

The Shidoshikai card proves that a teacher is current or has paid their yearly dues within the Bujinkan.

Bujinkan is the organization that Soke Hatsumi developed to spread Budo Taijutsu (ninjutsu and samurai based arts)

There are nine ryu-ha (schools) within Budo Taijutsu. They are the following:

Togakure-ryu Ninpo Happo Biken was founded in the late 1100's by Daisuke Nishina. The second oldest Ryu in Masaaki Hatsumi's Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu system. This school is most famous in Bujinkan for the different Ninjutsu weapons as the Shuko, Shinodake, Shuriken, etc.

Gyokko-ryu Kosshijutsu Happo Biken was founded in the mid 1100's by Tozawa Hakuunsai. The oldest Ryu in Masaaki Hatsumi's Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu system. Most famous for the Kihon Happo, Sanshin no kata, and Muto Taihenjutsu which are considered as the basics in the Bujinkan system.

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Kukishin-ryu Taijutsu Happo Biken was founded in the mid 1300's by Izumo Kanja Yoshitero. Most famous in Bujinkan for the many different weapon techniques. [/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Shindenfudo-ryu Dakentaijutsu Happo Biken was founded in the beginning of 1100 by Izumo Kaja Yoshitero. Most famous in Bujinkan for the rough Dakentaijutsu techniques. [/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Gyokushin-ryu Ninpo Happo Biken was founded in the mid 1500's by Sasaki Goemon Teruyoshi. Very little of this school have been taught to the western world. It is believed that this school was more into information gathering and planning than actual combat. [/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Koto-ryu Koppojutsu Happo Biken was founded in the mid 1500's by Sakagami Taro Kunishige. Most famous in Bujinkan for the Koppojutsu (bone breaking techniques), and unusual Biken (sword) style of fighting. [/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Gikan-ryu Koppo Taijutsu Happo Biken was founded in the mid 1500's by Uryu Hangan Gikanbo. This school is also specialized in Koppojutsu. [/FONT]

Kumogakure-ryu Ninpo Happo Biken was founded in the mid 1500's by Iga Heinaizaemon No Jo Ienaga. Most famous in Bujinkan for the Kamayari, and jumping techniques.

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Takagiyoshin-ryu Jutaijutsu Happo Biken was founded in the beginning of 1600 by Takagi Oriuemon Shigenobu. Most famous in Bujinkan as a "Bodyguard School/Samurai" with fast and effective Jujitsu techniques, and Daishosabaki (Jujitsu while wearing both swords in the belt).[/FONT]

I hope that helps and gives you an overview of Budo Taijutsu! Good luck.

**** My post is Off Topic - My Apologies ****

Brian thanks for this information.

I do have a question on what you posted, because I am confused.

Togakure-ryu Ninpo Happo Biken was founded in the late 1100's by Daisuke Nishina. The second oldest Ryu . . .

Gyokko-ryu Kosshijutsu Happo Biken was founded in the mid 1100's by Tozawa Hakuunsai. The oldest Ryu in . . .

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Shindenfudo-ryu Dakentaijutsu Happo Biken was founded in the beginning of 1100 by Izumo Kaja Yoshitero. Most famous in Bujinkan for the rough Dakentaijutsu techniques.

The first is listed as being late 1100's and the second oldest Ryu.
The second is listed as being mid 1100's and the oldest ryu.
The third in my list, as you wrote is meginning 1100's. It has Ryu in the name.

So my confusion is the above? Is it because of a typo? Or is it becuase the third one listed did not become a ryu until after the others, but did start before the others?

Thanks
[/FONT]

 

[Dellian]

Can I play devils advocate for a moment? I don't mean to come across as a Nixon, most of the guys here will tell you I try and be helpful, but somthing comes to mind...

If you know NOTHING about the art... why did you choose it? Was it at random? or because of the "made up" ninja image? Why was this your choice?

You may certaintly play this devils advocate of yours.
But I will merely reply and say under no part of my first post I said I knew NOTHING about Ninjutsu...
I have read about it for so long and what I meant about "the average person can begin to learn it" is that I can simply go out and join a dojo, I never thought it was that simple.

Now about this...

Or because of the "made up" ninja image?

I have to admit I'm a little annoyed at that comment, I just wanted to post some questions and yet you are drawing me out?
I am quite aware of the difference between myth and reality. So please do not treat me like a child.

And it was a choice made on many reasons and over a very lengthy time. Of which there are too many to list.

 

[mrhnau]

Can I play devils advocate for a moment? I don't mean to come across as a Nixon, most of the guys here will tell you I try and be helpful, but somthing comes to mind...

If you know NOTHING about the art... why did you choose it? Was it at random? or because of the "made up" ninja image? Why was this your choice?

Just relax man I think most people can seperate fantasy and reality. Regardless, getting into a good dojo/shibu is going to be a great introduction, and that is what it looks like his looking into So just take it easy...

Alot of kids have odd perceptions of MA. We grow up watching those cool kung-fu movies, but somehow, amazingly, 99% of us grew out of it and can seperate fact from fiction

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

**** Off Topic - My Apologies ****


**** My post is Off Topic - My Apologies ****

Brian thanks for this information.

I do have a question on what you posted, because I am confused.

Togakure-ryu Ninpo Happo Biken was founded in the late 1100's by Daisuke Nishina. The second oldest Ryu . . .

Gyokko-ryu Kosshijutsu Happo Biken was founded in the mid 1100's by Tozawa Hakuunsai. The oldest Ryu in . . .

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Shindenfudo-ryu Dakentaijutsu Happo Biken was founded in the beginning of 1100 by Izumo Kaja Yoshitero. Most famous in Bujinkan for the rough Dakentaijutsu techniques. [/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]The first is listed as being late 1100's and the second oldest Ryu.[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]The second is listed as being mid 1100's and the oldest ryu. [/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]The third in my list, as you wrote is meginning 1100's. It has Ryu in the name. [/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]So my confusion is the above? Is it because of a typo? Or is it becuase the third one listed did not become a ryu until after the others, but did start before the others?[/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Thanks[/FONT]

Hey Rich,

Take the above as an overview that is close. The best work I have found on the subject is the book written by Paul Richardson, titled : An Introductory History to the Schools of the Bujinkan. This book can be found here : http://www.ninjutsu.com/store/search.php?mode=search
I would recommend anyone who is interested in the history of the Bujinkan to buy it.

Even though I know a little of the history of the Bujinkan it is hard to pin everything down. Don Roley and many other's can give better answers regarding the history of the schools of the Bujinkan than I could. In this case I just tried to post an overview that I had sitting on my computer.

According to Paul Richardson's work above the dates are something like this with the understanding that their were teachers in each of these ryu-ha before these dates.

Togakure Ryu 1110
Shindenfudo Ryu 1113
Gyokko Ryu 1156 - 1159

As to being confused, join the crowd. :erg: I get confused quite often myself..

Here is another short listing of the history of the Bujinkan :
http://www.ninjutsu.at/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=14&Itemid=15

And yet another
http://www.bujinkanlillisdojo.com/

Gyokko ryu is considered to be the oldest of the ryu-ha within the Bujinkan.

Once again the history of the Bujinkan is not my forte so to speak. (though I try a little)