An add on to the thread “My new Car” --- Car buying tips

[hemi]

This thread goes kind of hand in hand with the “My new car Thread”. I am by no means an expert on buying new cars but I have bought more than a few cars and trucks in my life. Seven if you only count my personal purchases and I have helped many of my friends to get a better deal. I also wanted to say that this is just my suggestions and I welcome any and all to post there ideas. I just got tired of getting the short end of the stick when I went to a dealer. So I sat down and made a game plan and I figured I would post it here.

First and foremost never, never, never trade in a car/ truck if you have one you need to rid yourself of to get your new car sell it outright. If you trade in a car that is what I like to call the Golden Gate for the dealer and you will have a one night stand and the dealer will not call the next day.

Once you are free and clear of the car you needed to sell you are ready to get on the net and decide what it is you can’t live with out. Once you have made a decision on what car/truck you want DO NOT go to the dealer, don’t call a dealer not yet.

Now before I get into the good stuff I wanted to say some of this may seem a little shady or just plain rude. But keep in mind the dealer in there to make as much as he/she can and they will cheat, lie, do what ever they need to in order to separate you from your money. And they are not your friend, they ask questions to use against you when you talk to them. But I will get more into later in this.

Ok so now you have picked a car out and have not been to the dealer you are now ready to do two things. One get your own financing, two log onto www.fightingchance.com . Most finance places will overnight you a check and it is very easy to do. The website is the best $39.00 you can spend they will give you very accurate pricing for every option, dealer kickbacks and all kinds of cool stuff.

Now for the fun part time to visit a dealer after you have located the car you want and hopefully you have your check in your back pocket. You have a folder with your (Fighting Chance data) a Calculator, and a pen and paper. Be very careful at this point, the dealer will ask what I like to call tag questions. They are geared to profile you and compile information to use against you. Such as do you have a trade in? What would you like your payments to be? How much are you thinking about putting down? All dangerous questions as the trade in that’s easy if you followed the first part of this you sold your old car. On the payments question BIG RED FLAG. That sets you up in a bad way. If you told them I want my payments to be around $400 per month and say you qualified for a low interest rate then your payments would be lets say $340.00 but since you told the dealer you could live with $400.00 they will just play with the price of the car until your payments are $400. And rake you over the coals since this is all hidden in the shell game.

Ok so you went to the dealer and were careful to not give away to much info and you have a car in mind and you are ready to talk price. Keep in mind when you were making small talk with the dealer you never said that you Would finance from them but you DID NOT tell them you have a check in your back pocket. Go ahead and let them run your credit since you have a check in your pocket. This will not hurt you if your score is a little lower from a check on your credit. And this gives them an idea of where you stand credit wise and they start to play their game. Once they have your credit score they will look at your interest rate that was offered. Say you qualified for %6 the dealer now can sit down and work up a price on the car. If you argue the price they will lower the price but (they secretly raise you interest rate) to recoup what they lost on price. The ole shell game. That is where you hammer them to the wall here in a min. Once you have a price that is fare. You will never get dealer hold back 3% that they get from the manufacture but you can get real close to True invoice price. They will really hound you to make a commitment to buy today. Well that is when I tell them I can have X truck for X price today. They say yes to those terms I say ok sign this paper that says I can have X truck at X price today. They sign the paper and CUT their own throat. I then pull out my handy check and ask who do I make this out too. At that point they generally turn green then red and I still have to run the gauntlet of the finance dept. Now they will try real hard to sell all kinds of crap like under coating, detail, sticker removal. You name it they want to recoup some of what they just lost.

But like I said in the beginning I am no expert and I welcome all other tips and advise. I have also never been a car salesman and I mean no disrespect to anyone who is. I have just been to a lot of rodeos.

 

[Carol]

.

First and foremost never, never, never trade in a car/ truck if you have one you need to rid yourself of to get your new car sell it outright. If you trade in a car that is what I like to call the Golden Gate for the dealer and you will have a one night stand and the dealer will not call the next day.

Sorry Hemi I'm going to disagree with you very strongly here, especially as this is a Martial Arts board.

And this is drawing from my own personal experience and not just some paranoid chick horriblizing about bad stuff.

My first and foremost: your personal health and safety is FAR more important than the few hundred dollars difference you may (or may not) gain when you sell a car vs. trading it.

Sorry for the obnoxious bold letters but that is a point that I don't think can be emphasized enough. The only time I've ever been stalked was from when I was selling some stuff (including an older car) preparing to return to college.

The fact that someone says they are interested in your car does NOT mean they are someone you can trust.

Your choices as a car seller are: to give the stranger your car to drive and hope they bring it back unscathed OR to sit in the car with a total stranger is at the wheel. Are these good options? Unless you sell your car to a friend or relative, these will be the options you face.

Choose carefully, and choose wisely.

 

[hemi]

Wow I guess being a guy I never really thought about the dangers in that way. Thank you for bringing that point to light. I have sold a lot of used cars using Auto Trader or just driving around with a sign in the window. And have never had a problem. Most times I let them take off in the car and if they steal it well in some cases cool. Now INS pays it off and I am rid of it. But in any case just report in stolen. In most cases people looked under the hood. Looked inside and then saw my maintenance records and gave me cash. But that is a good point you brought up and I guess I should have been more specific in that never trade a car you still owe money on. That gives the dealer so many new doors to hide fees in.

 

[Jade Tigress]

My husband has bought a lot of cars too. He also used to purchase all the fleet vehicles at the company he works for so has a lot of experience working with dealers. He's scares me sometimes because I always think he's gonna ruin the deal. But he always gets things to work out best for us.

The last vehicle we bought (my husbands '01 Frontier SE, which is loaded) we prequalified with Capitol One Auto Finance online, and had a check in our pocket. Because of that we got a fantastic deal because there was no way we could spend more than we had and it was like walking in with cash in hand so we ended up stealing the thing.

I agree that it's always better if you can sell a vehicle outright rather than trade-in, but it doesn't always work out that way, so you have to work around it and get things going to the best of your advantage.

A lot of good points there. Thanks for posting.

 

[hemi]

we prequalified with Capitol One Auto Finance online, and had a check in our pocket. Because of that we got a fantastic deal because there was no way we could spend more than we had and it was like walking in with cash in hand so we ended up stealing the thing.

I love Capitol One they are so easy to work with

 

[Jade Tigress]

I love Capitol One they are so easy to work with

Yeah, they were the best. Made everything real easy and gave us a huge advantage.

 

[Carol]

I've also heard good things about Capital One. Personally I've had the best luck with my credit union. I have decent income but not-so-decent credit from my divorce and all that. The good folks at my credit union have helped me out of a lot of tight spots in the past.

Another thing to watch for is if your state has a Lemon Law, and how it's worded. Lemon Law statutes often put certain obligations on the seller in a private sale. If the car has some issues, it can sometimes be better to trade the car to the dealer and not worry about legal recourse.

I made a really bad choice with my last SUV and chose to trade it for a new one instead of fixing all of its issues.

Trading a car...it can work for you or it can work against you. Best to factor in all the variables and decide which is right for you

 

[michaeledward]

So let's see if I understand ... you have purchased at least 7 new vehicles from the dealers lot. Let's guestimate the average price of, oh, let's say $18,000.00 per new vehicle. That's what ... $126,000.00 worth of new cars.

I posit, that your hyper-suspicious attitude makes for some poor experiences.

Having sold cars in a former life, let me tell you that we learn to look on people walking on the lot as 'Customers For Life' (tm George Sewell). When I see you come to the dealership, I promise, I am not looking a delivering one car, today, for 20 grand.

I see you as someone with whom I will do business for the next 40 or 50 years .... 10 to 12 new vehicles ... $200,000.00, $300,000.00 or $500,000.00 over the course of a lifetime. Do you honestly believe I am going to screw myself out of a half a million dollars of business to jam you out of a couple of hundred bucks today?

What if your purchasing experience was so enjoyable, so upright and so easy that you could never imagine purchasing a vehicle from anyone but me?

If you want to see purchasing a car as a competition, wherein you have to 'beat' the dealer .. you will lose (you're going to end up with a new vehicle, right?). The average dealer sells over 100 cars a month. Purchasers are rarely in that league.

Times have changed. Go visit a Saturn store.

 

[Gary Crawford]

Michealedward! Alas! We finally agre on something. I do absolutely agree with you on this one(being a car salesman). I really hate the attitudes somepeople get about us in our trade,but some dealers make these attitudes reality. I sell toyota's because I want not only to sell someone a car,but to sell their freinds relitives and establish good lasting relationships. Can't do that screwing customers.

 

[Carol]

Michealedward! Alas! We finally agre on something. I do absolutely agree with you on this one(being a car salesman). I really hate the attitudes somepeople get about us in our trade,but some dealers make these attitudes reality. I sell toyota's because I want not only to sell someone a car,but to sell their freinds relitives and establish good lasting relationships. Can't do that screwing customers.

The one thing that the "car buying" web sites don't tell the consumer (and I don't think it has been mentioned here) is that car dealerships don't make a lot of money by selling cars. They make their money by servicing cars. I made one transaction to buy a car, I make many to keep it running properly. If someone does good work and good business, I prefer to support them.

Having a good relationship with a dealer does have its advantages. I've gotten to know my service advisors very well, and I trust their knowledge. They have patched a tire for me or finagled a deal with some mobile bodywork techs to get my banged up doors fixed at a decent price. A good business relationship goes both ways.

 

[Rich Parsons]

This thread goes kind of hand in hand with the “My new car Thread”. I am by no means an expert on buying new cars but I have bought more than a few cars and trucks in my life. Seven if you only count my personal purchases and I have helped many of my friends to get a better deal. I also wanted to say that this is just my suggestions and I welcome any and all to post there ideas. I just got tired of getting the short end of the stick when I went to a dealer. So I sat down and made a game plan and I figured I would post it here.

First and foremost never, never, never trade in a car/ truck if you have one you need to rid yourself of to get your new car sell it outright. If you trade in a car that is what I like to call the Golden Gate for the dealer and you will have a one night stand and the dealer will not call the next day.

Once you are free and clear of the car you needed to sell you are ready to get on the net and decide what it is you can’t live with out. Once you have made a decision on what car/truck you want DO NOT go to the dealer, don’t call a dealer not yet.

Now before I get into the good stuff I wanted to say some of this may seem a little shady or just plain rude. But keep in mind the dealer in there to make as much as he/she can and they will cheat, lie, do what ever they need to in order to separate you from your money. And they are not your friend, they ask questions to use against you when you talk to them. But I will get more into later in this.

Ok so now you have picked a car out and have not been to the dealer you are now ready to do two things. One get your own financing, two log onto www.fightingchance.com . Most finance places will overnight you a check and it is very easy to do. The website is the best $39.00 you can spend they will give you very accurate pricing for every option, dealer kickbacks and all kinds of cool stuff.

Now for the fun part time to visit a dealer after you have located the car you want and hopefully you have your check in your back pocket. You have a folder with your (Fighting Chance data) a Calculator, and a pen and paper. Be very careful at this point, the dealer will ask what I like to call tag questions. They are geared to profile you and compile information to use against you. Such as do you have a trade in? What would you like your payments to be? How much are you thinking about putting down? All dangerous questions as the trade in that’s easy if you followed the first part of this you sold your old car. On the payments question BIG RED FLAG. That sets you up in a bad way. If you told them I want my payments to be around $400 per month and say you qualified for a low interest rate then your payments would be lets say $340.00 but since you told the dealer you could live with $400.00 they will just play with the price of the car until your payments are $400. And rake you over the coals since this is all hidden in the shell game.

Ok so you went to the dealer and were careful to not give away to much info and you have a car in mind and you are ready to talk price. Keep in mind when you were making small talk with the dealer you never said that you Would finance from them but you DID NOT tell them you have a check in your back pocket. Go ahead and let them run your credit since you have a check in your pocket. This will not hurt you if your score is a little lower from a check on your credit. And this gives them an idea of where you stand credit wise and they start to play their game. Once they have your credit score they will look at your interest rate that was offered. Say you qualified for %6 the dealer now can sit down and work up a price on the car. If you argue the price they will lower the price but (they secretly raise you interest rate) to recoup what they lost on price. The ole shell game. That is where you hammer them to the wall here in a min. Once you have a price that is fare. You will never get dealer hold back 3% that they get from the manufacture but you can get real close to True invoice price. They will really hound you to make a commitment to buy today. Well that is when I tell them I can have X truck for X price today. They say yes to those terms I say ok sign this paper that says I can have X truck at X price today. They sign the paper and CUT their own throat. I then pull out my handy check and ask who do I make this out too. At that point they generally turn green then red and I still have to run the gauntlet of the finance dept. Now they will try real hard to sell all kinds of crap like under coating, detail, sticker removal. You name it they want to recoup some of what they just lost.

But like I said in the beginning I am no expert and I welcome all other tips and advise. I have also never been a car salesman and I mean no disrespect to anyone who is. I have just been to a lot of rodeos.

Nice

Having a talent for numbers, when they start bouncing things out there and then the numbers at the end do not seem to add up and I cannot get it to resolve in my head, I walk away. If at that point they can show me all the data and it adds up I will think about it. A deal today should be just as good tomorrow. And if it is not then I walk away and have done so.

 

[hemi]

So let's see if I understand ... you have purchased at least 7 new vehicles from the dealers lot. Let's guestimate the average price of, oh, let's say $18,000.00 per new vehicle. That's what ... $126,000.00 worth of new cars.

I posit, that your hyper-suspicious attitude makes for some poor experiences.

Having sold cars in a former life, let me tell you that we learn to look on people walking on the lot as 'Customers For Life' (tm George Sewell). When I see you come to the dealership, I promise, I am not looking a delivering one car, today, for 20 grand.

I see you as someone with whom I will do business for the next 40 or 50 years .... 10 to 12 new vehicles ... $200,000.00, $300,000.00 or $500,000.00 over the course of a lifetime. Do you honestly believe I am going to screw myself out of a half a million dollars of business to jam you out of a couple of hundred bucks today?

What if your purchasing experience was so enjoyable, so upright and so easy that you could never imagine purchasing a vehicle from anyone but me?

If you want to see purchasing a car as a competition, wherein you have to 'beat' the dealer .. you will lose (you're going to end up with a new vehicle, right?). The average dealer sells over 100 cars a month. Purchasers are rarely in that league.

Times have changed. Go visit a Saturn store.

Well to start with yes I have purchased seven cars/trucks off of dealer lots. Not all at the same time or even in the same year. Well this year I did buy two at one time. My wife’s Sonata and my Tiburon out in Greenville TX, BTW I highly recommend that dealership. My first new truck I bout back when I was 20 right of the lot at Trophy Nissan in Mesquite TX. It was a Nissan reg cab PU that was done up by Show Trucks USA and was around 12,000 out the door back in 1993. I don’t however recommend that dealership. Since then I have bought a Jeep Liberty 4x4, A Mazda B4000 4x4, a Nissan Sentara, A Dodge Ram 1500 Crew Cab 4x4, (Hence my handle here 2004Hemi) I bought an F350 4x4 Crew cab Diesel. And this weekend I bought a Nissan Frontier Crew Cab not new it is a 2002 year model. So I am looking to sell my 2006 Tiburon SE V6 with 18’s and 45 series tires.

Now I am not saying I have made the best decisions in buying all these cars and trucks. Nor am I bragging about doing so. I took a beating on some and stole others but I learned a lot along the way. That was why I decided to pass on some of what I learned in the process. I have been told several times by the County I live in that I could not sell anymore cars that year unless I get a dealers license.


I make no apologies for what I wrote about dealers playing games, that is no secret. I didn’t say all car sales people are Evil but IN MY EXPERIENCE most have been much less than honest straight shooters save a few. “Bob Howard auto group in OK City” “Greenville Dodge” Ennis Ford, Mercury “All great dealers and great sales people. Yes I even bought my wife a Jeep out of state since none of the TX dealers in my area would work with me. I bought the truck at the visitor center on the OK side of the state line. Another thing I have noticed in my experience a lot of sales people are here today and gone tomorrow. They will make a quick buck and move on to another dealership. I’m not saying all are like that I’m sure many are not but every sales person I have dealt with wants to make a sale, they want to make as much as they can on their car, and will play with the #’s to make that happen. All the sales people I worked with asked the same questions and it does not take long to put 2&2 together and get to the bottom of their game.

Just my .02

 

[Flatlander]

Well, it's no different than any other business, really. There are the kinds of people that commit to their role, understand the value of long term, honest relationships with their customers, and uphold an ethical standard.

Then there are the people who will make money however they can. Generally, I figure that these people are psychopathic, insofar as they seem to not really have a conscience.