Aikido in an Mma gym

[DaveB]

Training is key.

 

[geezer]

Not something I could pull off. But that's not the point. I like the idea that he's not totally throwing away all his Aikido instincts. That instead he's finding some ways that what he did before can inform his MMA training. There are people from a lot of traditional arts who are doing that nowadays. I think it's awesome.

 

[drop bear]

Yeah.

People realize punches come a bit faster than that?

A perfect example that the system matters.

 

[DaveB]

Yeah.

People realize punches come a bit faster than that?

A perfect example that the system matters.

I don't follow.
What does individual realization have to do with the system?

 

[drop bear]

I don't follow.
What does individual realization have to do with the system?

There is nobody who can make that technique work outside a demo.

There is no evidence of that move working live. And especially in MMA where people can generally fight.

Aikido guy literally tried everything he could to make it work. And couldn't.

Mabye in ten years with a good grappling striking base he will understand the techniques to make Aikido work. But until then he is stuck learning fundamentals that actually work.

 

[DaveB]

There is nobody who can make that technique work outside a demo.

There is no evidence of that move working live. And especially in MMA where people can generally fight.

Aikido guy literally tried everything he could to make it work.

Ok, so now it's not just TMA junkies we disregard it's MMA coaches too.

 

[drop bear]

Ok, so now it's not just TMA junkies we disregard it's MMA coaches too.

Show it done live.

Seriously stop believing every fanciful notion about martial arts.

A lot of it is just made up.

 

[jobo]

Ok, so now it's not just TMA junkies we disregard it's MMA coaches too.

we do a move just like that in karate, and it's one of them hmmmm moves, you'd need lightning fast reflexs, a substantial grip to catch hold of a sweaty wrist and you've still got to worry about getting clocked with the other hand.

I general say" do that on me" and if they can't, file it away as " interesting, " for the time im attacked by a manakin, a particularly slow moving manakin that over commits.

 

[DaveB]

Show it done live.

Seriously stop believing every fanciful notion about martial arts.

A lot of it is just made up.

I already did.

I posted it ages ago in a vid by someone explaining how you could adjust the training to employ Aikido.

There's another one floating around the net of a guy in a street fight using a different Aikido technique.

And I'd rather hold to my beliefs based in experience and logic than fall for the simplistic ego stroking that you engage in.

 

[oftheherd1]

There is nobody who can make that technique work outside a demo.

There is no evidence of that move working live. And especially in MMA where people can generally fight.

Aikido guy literally tried everything he could to make it work. And couldn't.

Mabye in ten years with a good grappling striking base he will understand the techniques to make Aikido work. But until then he is stuck learning fundamentals that actually work.

So only MMA can throw a punch so fast even Superman can't catch it?

Mind you, I don't like his technique. He wastes time and energy in his grip, with the dubious possibility of using another grapple again not applied as I had learned it.

But seriously, what makes you think that no one could react to catch a punch? Can everyone do it? Perhaps not. Can everyone throw a punch at the speed of a bullet? Probably not.

we do a move just like that in karate, and it's one of them hmmmm moves, you'd need lightning fast reflexs, a substantial grip to catch hold of a sweaty wrist and you've still got to worry about getting clocked with the other hand.

I general say" do that on me" and if they can't, file it away as " interesting, " for the time im attacked by a manakin, a particularly slow moving manakin that over commits.

I think if you are having to worry about your opponent's other hand, you aren't quite doing the technique properly. Your control of his wrist and turning it should turn an opponent's body so he would be unable to strike you.

 

[jobo]

So only MMA can throw a punch so fast even Superman can't catch it?

Mind you, I don't like his technique. He wastes time and energy in his grip, with the dubious possibility of using another grapple again not applied as I had learned it.

But seriously, what makes you think that no one could react to catch a punch? Can everyone do it? Perhaps not. Can everyone throw a punch at the speed of a bullet? Probably not.



I think if you are having to worry about your opponent's other hand, you aren't quite doing the technique properly. Your control of his wrist and turning it should turn an opponent's body so he would be unable to strike you.

I find it very easy to break wrist grabs, by the simple method of whiping my wrist in a circle, so he either lets go or breaks his wrist. and you still have to catch a wrist in the first place, it has a far more useful application if he tries to grab or push you than catch a very fast moving arm

as I say people have tried it on me and failed

 

[drop bear]

So only MMA can throw a punch so fast even Superman can't catch it?

Mind you, I don't like his technique. He wastes time and energy in his grip, with the dubious possibility of using another grapple again not applied as I had learned it.

But seriously, what makes you think that no one could react to catch a punch? Can everyone do it? Perhaps not. Can everyone throw a punch at the speed of a bullet? Probably not.

The whole punching thing is quite often conceptialised incorrectly.

Punching predictably punching lightly or punching slowly allows for different counters than punching hard fast and unpredictably.

The idea that you can see, adress and counter each punch individually reduces the faster, harder, and more randomly the punches come until you basically can't see punches coming at speed.

So the expectation that you will see a punch, move, trap the arm, manipulate the wrist and throw a guy before he throws the next punch against a punch that people cannot move their arm 10cm to block. Is quite simply asking too much.

Which is why we won't see that move done live.

This is also why good strikers set up their counters before the punch is thrown.

How much did these guys need to move to either get out of the way or get a hand up to block?

 

[drop bear]

I find it very easy to break wrist grabs, by the simple method of whiping my wrist in a circle, so he either lets go or breaks his wrist. and you still have to catch a wrist in the first place, it has a far more useful application if he tries to grab or push you than catch a very fast moving arm

as I say people have tried it on me and failed

Left hook.

 

[oftheherd1]

I find it very easy to break wrist grabs, by the simple method of whiping my wrist in a circle, so he either lets go or breaks his wrist. and you still have to catch a wrist in the first place, it has a far more useful application if he tries to grab or push you than catch a very fast moving arm

as I say people have tried it on me and failed

But you haven't tried it with me.

Seriously, there are times when what you suggest can be done. But against a properly applied grapple, that would not have a good success rate.

 

[jobo]

But you haven't tried it with me.

Seriously, there are times when what you suggest can be done. But against a properly applied grapple, that would not have a good success rate.

there are some super humans out there, but if YOU are not one of them, you are not catching my wrist, and if you do, IL break the hold quicker than you can use the leverage against me, by using leverage

 

[Martial D]

Training is key.

Hah, that's the same guy that triggered the entire aikido world with 'leaving aikido/why aikido sucks' YouTube series.

Good for him doing some real training. It's funny how that low % stuff starts to work when you have an actual fighting base. I'm not sure if he could pull that off at full speed, but the odds are way higher than they were before.

 

[geezer]

I'm not sure if he could pull that off at full speed, but the odds are way higher than they were before.

Exactly. This is the point being missed in the argument above.

 

[drop bear]

Exactly. This is the point being missed in the argument above.

No I really don't think you can train Aikido like a mma fighter and get the same result. The techniques are just too unwieldy.

There seems to be this idea that if people don't train very hard is somehow a reason a system is valid.

It is not logical. Because you can be not training hard and be doing an impractical system at the same time. They don't negate each other.

 

[Headhunter]

And here we go another stupid style v style ego measuring contest

 

[drop bear]

And here we go another stupid style v style ego measuring contest

It is only ego if your feelings are getting hurt.