Advice needed: switched from ITF to WT - got some struggles

[Faith]

I need some advice. I changed from ITF to WT taekwondo for 1 1/2 year ago and I love it! The club is small, but amazing - it's just how a martial art club is in my head
But after I changed clubs, I feel it's somehting that I can't point out directly. I feel I'm stuck somehow. The trainer accepted my red belt from ITF and I am training as a red belt in WT. Learned all the poomsaes up to Taeguk Chil-yang.

I think I feel stuck because I want to progress (who won't?), but I still got too much ITF in me and the muscle memory that just won't go that easily. Like some kicks are done different, no sine wave and I feel I'm a bit clumsy when I am trying to do things in their way when I'm trying to get ridd of what I am used to from ITF.

As the only red belt in the club, I can't ask someone else for help. My trainer just pats me on the head and say I need to take the time to help.
I have trainings twice of week which I feel is too little for me.

Have you guys some experience with students which have switched and struggles with the same thing? Any advices what I should focus on and how to do it?

 

[dvcochran]

I need some advice. I changed from ITF to WT taekwondo for 1 1/2 year ago and I love it! The club is small, but amazing - it's just how a martial art club is in my head
But after I changed clubs, I feel it's somehting that I can't point out directly. I feel I'm stuck somehow. The trainer accepted my red belt from ITF and I am training as a red belt in WT. Learned all the poomsaes up to Taeguk Chil-yang.

I think I feel stuck because I want to progress (who won't?), but I still got too much ITF in me and the muscle memory that just won't go that easily. Like some kicks are done different, no sine wave and I feel I'm a bit clumsy when I am trying to do things in their way when I'm trying to get ridd of what I am used to from ITF.

As the only red belt in the club, I can't ask someone else for help. My trainer just pats me on the head and say I need to take the time to help.
I have trainings twice of week which I feel is too little for me.

Have you guys some experience with students which have switched and struggles with the same thing? Any advices what I should focus on and how to do it?

You is trainer is correct that time is your best ally.
Very engrained Sine way will definitely take time to work out. My best advice is to embrace the fact that you are starting at the beginning with some of the most basic components/techniques. As a senior gup rank student, do not hesitate to ask and lean on lower ranking students that can help you with the 'new' basics.
Focus on getting back to the basics first and worrying less about poomsae progression. There is nothing worse that seeing someone rush through poorly just to get the next belt. And since you are high gup in a small school this is compounded. A small school needs solid, reliable high gups. I am certain this is part of your instructors thinking with allowing you to keep your red belt.
I wish you the best. Keep in touch and let us know how it goes.

 

[MadMartigan]

Our club has offered the same (just in reverse when a local WT school closed). We honored the ranks of their 5 students who came over (including 3 red belts).They tried coming over with the option to learn up to their rank then proceed further. They experienced similar struggles as you're describing. In the end, only 1 of the red belts stuck around and actually went on to higher rank.

Personally, I've only started up non comparable ma (bjjj and wing chun). In both cases, I started from white belt (or equivalent as the WC club had no belts or ranks).

I think starting from scratch was helpful to be able to approach the training with as empty a cup as possible. I'm not saying you can't make this transition work... I just think it's harder.

Perhaps try thinking of these new ways of kicking/moving less as changing what you've learned... and more as just learning something brand new. Your previous knowledge is not (necessarily) wrong... just different.

If this still doesn't work then the only option you have left that I can see involves an ego hit. Take off the Red belt and start fresh (or ask the instructor to evaluate and put you in at where they feel an appropriate rank would be at your current ability in this new curriculum). That may be what it takes to mentally let go of the old way. In the end, if the goal is ability over external rank recognition... be patient. Just put in the work and in time it will all come together.

 

[MadMartigan]

I have trainings twice of week which I feel is too little for me.

Oh yeah... on the topic of training times.

From what you described, more class time will only be so helpful in working through these changes. While it will help with the new types of kicking drills, etc... but it won't be enough to change your movement methods for your patterns.
You need to spend your own time dedicated to teaching your body to move through stances in a different way. Class time is not when you will make gains on this. If you want to beat the sine wave out, you'll need to practice on your own (not being distracted or pulled away for the next drill in class).

Take the white belt form for your new school, and just work on stepping through each stance and chambering your blocks their way. Once you've got that version of stepping through the (I'm guessing) all forward stances on this simple pattern; the muscle memory will then later translate into the higher forms.

If you're spending all your focus on learning new patterns, you won't have the mental currency left over to work on HOW to do them.

 

[Flying Crane]

Oh yeah... on the topic of training times.

From what you described, more class time will only be so helpful in working through these changes. While it will help with the new types of kicking drills, etc... but it won't be enough to change your movement methods for your patterns.
You need to spend your own time dedicated to teaching your body to move through stances in a different way. Class time is not when you will make gains on this. If you want to beat the sine wave out, you'll need to practice on your own (not being distracted or pulled away for the next drill in class).

Take the white belt form for your new school, and just work on stepping through each stance and chambering your blocks their way. Once you've got that version of stepping through the (I'm guessing) all forward stances on this simple pattern; the muscle memory will then later translate into the higher forms.

If you're spending all your focus on learning new patterns, you won't have the mental currency left over to work on HOW to do them.

This. It is vitally important that you spend time outside of class working on this stuff. You need to take ownership of your training and not just follow along in class.

 

[Faith]

Yes. I fully agree with you that he is right and this will take time. I am also going to talk to the trainger before the next training that I want him to really pick on me on that training to say what I can do better to be better. I hope that will work, but not every training so I get more frustrated over everything I do wrong.
Unfortunatly, I am the only high-belt in the club. The trainer is 4th DAN and that's it. So if I am going to ask another black belt, I have to visit another club that is 50 minutes away with car (it's doable).

This. It is vitally important that you spend time outside of class working on this stuff. You need to take ownership of your training and not just follow along in class.

I am training almost every day at home, doing poomsaes and trying to focus not doing the sinewave. It's not that easy when I'm alone and correcting myself when I'm feeling it nor doing it without knowing it

 

[Flying Crane]

I am training almost every day at home, doing poomsaes and trying to focus not doing the sinewave. It's not that easy when I'm alone and correcting myself when I'm feeling it nor doing it without knowing it

Not easy, but worth the effort. Pay attention to corrections in class, and keep working on it outside of class. This is a process that takes time and effort. Keep at it.

 

[skribs]

I did respond to your post on Reddit, but I'll repeat what I think is the most important piece: pick one thing at a time and work on it for a few weeks to a few months (until it's second nature). Don't overwhelm yourself trying to change everything at once.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Take time out of class like other's have said. Use that time to be more precise in understanding the differences. During that time, take videos of yourself training, compare to videos of other people in both and see where you're issues rely, and then focus specifically on those. Even with that, like others have said it takes time to change your movements so be patient with yourself.

One other thing that I want to add is, when you can differentiate them, don't forget your itf ways of doing the kicks. I've got no way to tell you if one is better than the other (or better for you), but you'll find some kicks/strikes/stances from both that you like, and some that you don't. You've now got the advantage of twice as many to choose from! Obviously on wt tests use the wt movements, but it never hurts to have alternate ways to throw a side or a roundhouse kick.

 

[andyjeffries]

I agree with your instructor, it takes time. But as an extra tip, what's worked for us when cross-training ITF Taekwon-do - go super slow. Go in slow motion. Have your instructor move your body, or you do it yourself, but treat it almost like Tai Chi. Slow motion, do only the correct motion.

When you are doing it correct in slow motion, add a little bit of speed, a little bit of acceleration. Do that for a while and build up.

When you go full speed, muscle memory will take over and your body/subconscious will do what it's done for so long. Go slow and build up, teach your body the new way.

Most importantly, don't stress! You can do this! We've successfully crossed over early coloured belts to Kukkiwon style, got them to black belt, we've crossed over 1st Dans and got them to Kukkiwon 2nd Dan standard. It's easily possible, it just takes time and effort.

 

[skribs]

I've got no way to tell you if one is better than the other (or better for you)

It's easy: the WT way is better!

In seriousness, quite often both are right for different situations. Knowing both ways and the right situation can be a boon. Or it can be a curse, if you get stuck trying to pick or pick wrong (the answer: more training).

 

[dvcochran]

Yes. I fully agree with you that he is right and this will take time. I am also going to talk to the trainger before the next training that I want him to really pick on me on that training to say what I can do better to be better. I hope that will work, but not every training so I get more frustrated over everything I do wrong.
Unfortunatly, I am the only high-belt in the club. The trainer is 4th DAN and that's it. So if I am going to ask another black belt, I have to visit another club that is 50 minutes away with car (it's doable).



I am training almost every day at home, doing poomsaes and trying to focus not doing the sinewave. It's not that easy when I'm alone and correcting myself when I'm feeling it nor doing it without knowing it

As long as you feel confident in your 4th Dan instructor (some of this can be compared online) I would suggest staying with it at least until you are at/near your current gup. Then I would definitely suggest auditing other schools; not for comparison but for your own horizon. It can be really, really eye opening even if the material taught are the same.
If your current Dojang is a quality program it should not be worried because they know you will be back.

 

[Hanshi]

Don't fret over it, just continue to learn and train as your teacher advises. I know exactly where you are coming from. Been there, done that myself several times. I came into taekwondo with my black belt in tang soo do (more like karate than tkd). Bouncing among various instructors I changed forms, techniques and affiliations several times. Changing forms was the tough part as the kicks always seemed to me to be only slight variations of what I'd previously learned. Consider it as you would learning a foreign language; you can still speak your original language but learn to "think" the new one as you practice.

 

[Equilibrum32]

I need some advice. I changed from ITF to WT taekwondo for 1 1/2 year ago and I love it! The club is small, but amazing - it's just how a martial art club is in my head
But after I changed clubs, I feel it's somehting that I can't point out directly. I feel I'm stuck somehow. The trainer accepted my red belt from ITF and I am training as a red belt in WT. Learned all the poomsaes up to Taeguk Chil-yang.

I think I feel stuck because I want to progress (who won't?), but I still got too much ITF in me and the muscle memory that just won't go that easily. Like some kicks are done different, no sine wave and I feel I'm a bit clumsy when I am trying to do things in their way when I'm trying to get ridd of what I am used to from ITF.

As the only red belt in the club, I can't ask someone else for help. My trainer just pats me on the head and say I need to take the time to help.
I have trainings twice of week which I feel is too little for me.

Have you guys some experience with students which have switched and struggles with the same thing? Any advices what I should focus on and how to do it?

What are you struggling with specifically with regards to kicking? Stephen Tapilatu transitioned straight from ITF to KKW and took silver in a WTF World championships.

There really isn't a big enough difference that you wouldn't be able to do it.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Stephen Tapilatu transitioned straight from ITF to KKW and took silver in a WTF World championships.

And Arlene Limas transitioned from Kung Fu / open competitions and took Olympic gold.

 

[dvcochran]

And Arlene Limas transitioned from Kung Fu / open competitions and took Olympic gold.

I competed in the same circuit with Mrs. Limas several times. A feisty woman in the ring.
She has one hell of a story and a great representative of TKD and martial arts as a whole.

 

[Earl Weiss]

I competed in the same circuit with Mrs. Limas several times. A feisty woman in the ring.
She has one hell of a story and a great representative of TKD and martial arts as a whole.

She was big in a Chicago area circuit- were you part of that?

 

[dvcochran]

She was big in a Chicago area circuit- were you part of that?

Largely east of Texas. Never had to go too far to the northeast. Chicago was a common tournament area.
I know we were at the Nationals in Indy and the Trials (USATKD Championship now) in Pensacola together.

 

[Equilibrum32]

And Arlene Limas transitioned from Kung Fu / open competitions and took Olympic gold.

Kung Fu is a generic term that can mean anything. What type of Kung Fu?

 

[mrt2]

Don't fret over it, just continue to learn and train as your teacher advises. I know exactly where you are coming from. Been there, done that myself several times. I came into taekwondo with my black belt in tang soo do (more like karate than tkd). Bouncing among various instructors I changed forms, techniques and affiliations several times. Changing forms was the tough part as the kicks always seemed to me to be only slight variations of what I'd previously learned. Consider it as you would learning a foreign language; you can still speak your original language but learn to "think" the new one as you practice.

I also came from a Tang Soo Do background (3 years) over to ITF style Tae Kwon Do 3 1/2 years ago. I was out of martial arts for over 30 years though so I started as a white belt. To this day, there is still a little Tang Soo Do in my Tae Kwon Do practice.