A simple workable BailOut.

[Bob Hubbard]

Big business is collapsing. Banks, investment firms, etc, are all heading to Washington on their private planes, in their finest Armani, Platnium cups in hand for a healthy serving of pork, and the high pigs are happy to borrow trillions from the Chinese to feed them.

Left out are the people who matter. The ones who will be paying for this, and the ones who can actually make a difference.

Here's my simple solution.

Let the big boys fail.

Extend the unemployment bennis, insure the deposits, and do a reasonable bit to keep roofs over peoples heads. Sorry, but if you're in a 750k home, that's your problem. You can live in an apartment or move into a 75k home. You don't need $500k to live. $30-40k will be enough, to survive. You can get your water out of the tap, and not a $2 bottle, and hamburger is fine, no need for a Tbone every night.

US population estimate: 375 million
# of individual US tax returns filed in 2007:

138,893,908
# S Corp Filing : 3,684,086
# Partnership filing : 2,947,116
# employment filings : 30,740,592
Total: 37,371,794



Assumption: 70% are under a Million$$ in assets.

Total: 26,160,255.8



Give every SCorp, Partnership and Sole Proprietor $50,000 tax free for the following purposes: Equipment purchases, Building Renovation, Employee training and hiring. Not to be used for jets, junkets, parties, imported cars, armani suits, etc. Must be used to hire Americans, to buy American goods, etc.



Cost: $1,308,012,750,000 (1.3 Trillion)
​

Give me $50k and I'll hire 3 people tomorrow.
Give me $100k, and I'll hire 6.
Either way, I'll triple it in a year.

 

[Flying Crane]

US population estimate: 375 million


# of individual US tax returns filed in 2007:

138,893,908​

# S Corp Filing : 3,684,086
# Partnership filing : 2,947,116
# employment filings : 30,740,592
Total: 37,371,794​

check your numbers here Bob. You've got number of individual tax returns as almost 139 million, yet when you total it with the others, you've only got a bit over 37 million.

This little arithmetic error is gonna throw all your other numbers off...

 

[Flying Crane]

Here's my simple solution.

Let the big boys fail.

While I tend to agree, there is a darker side to this: many of those who will suffer are the rank-and-file employees of these companies. The senior execs will certainly walk away from it intact. It's their employees who will be left out in the cold, and they are just ordinary citizens like you and I.

I agree that an overinflated, non-functional company should not be propped up. If it doesn't offer something of value to society and cannot survive with a viable and reasonable business plan, then it should not exists.

But at this stage in the game, you are talking about letting hoards of people flood the ranks of the unemployed, and that is not gonna help the economy at all.

Sorry, but if you're in a 750k home, that's your problem. You can live in an apartment or move into a 75k home. You don't need $500k to live. $30-40k will be enough, to survive.

Does this not fly in the face of many discussions we have had here where members have championed the huge pay of the corporate executives, saying they have earned their pay and they deserve it, and we cannot disrupt free market and free enterprise and free capitalism? If they can make the money, who are we to take it from them? Have not many members here expressed the notion that, how dare someone suggest that my earnings be taken from me to be given to someone else who isn't able to earn as much?

Now you want to tell everyone that they only have a right to make $30K-$40K? Is government now in the business of telling EVERYONE how much they are entitled to be paid?

You can get your water out of the tap, and not a $2 bottle, and hamburger is fine, no need for a Tbone every night.

on a personal note, I agree with this. However, I think those who drink nothing but $2 bottles of water and steak every night are in a tiny minority. The vast majority of the nation do not live like this. It simply is not an accurate reflection of the popluation. I think you're sort of misplacing your sights here.

Give me $50k and I'll hire 3 people tomorrow.
Give me $100k, and I'll hire 6.
Either way, I'll triple it in a year.

I hope you can do this. I think it would be great.

In principle I agree with much of what you are saying, but I think there are a lot of unworkable elements in the mix that will simply not allow something like this to happen.

 

[Sukerkin]

It is, however, the case that for the amount of 'money' (not real money but noone seems to care anymore) being slung at the Big Boys who've ****ed it all up then everyone could be made an entrepeneur in their own right.

Making a multitude of proper businesses who make something real than someone needs.

It is symptomatic of what is fundamentally wrong with the system that it is not causing more outrage than it is that those that have leeched off the flow of income without actually contributing anything are the ones being spoon-fed from the taxes of those that do.

It makes my blood boil like little else does.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Personally I'd just say anyone making below $250 grand is released from paying incometax for the whole year. Even allow business to not withhold income tax. This would put several hundeds of dollars in the pockets of people each payday. Right now. And if you don't pay taxes, you don't get any (and why would you?)

Deaf

 

[Thesemindz]

Ultimately it doesn't matter what they do.

Since the creation of the Federal Reserve in 1913, the federal reserve note has lost 94% of its purchasing power to inflation. Additionally, by some estimates, nearly 70% of your money goes back to the government through taxation, tariffs, and fees. This combines to reduce your purchasing power to approximately 1.8 percent of the face value of your currency.

Their solution to the economic problems is to print more currency and prop up a system which has been failing steadily for nearly a hundred years. Whether they let these businesses fail or bail them out, the government will continue to pursue their practices of crony capitalism and fiat currencies.

It doesn't have anything to do with what's best for the country. It's a system that allows those in power and their friends to make money out of thin air, and take money by force. And the rest of us are left holding the bag.

This isn't a recent occurence. Fiat currencies have been tried repeatedly throughout history. They have always failed. Always. The system we have of state supported monopolies and government controlled investment and regulatory capture can't possibly sustain itself divorced from the force which states use to dictate commerce.

So we see these problems occur repeatedly. Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac were created as part of the New Deal because there was a percieved shortage of liquid capital in the morgage industry. Sound familiar? Then thiry years later they were bankrupting the government and so they divested them and reestablished them as private concerns still backed by federal funds. Now a little more than thirty years later the problem has cropped up again. Only each time the problem is exponentially bigger and more costly.

They won't fix the problem. Put quite simply, they can't. Not and continue to exist within the framework they have established. So they will simply postpone the inevitable. They'll print a bunch more money and pretend it all went away, and the American public will go whistling by the graveyard for a few more years.

But think back on all the "stimulus" packages and coporate "bailouts" we've had recently, and ask yourself, where's all that money coming from? I'll give you a hint, it's coming from the future. They're essentially stealing from the future value of the established currency by over printing it now to cover their shortages.

The final stage of any fiat currency is hyperinflation. Remember the germans who had to roll wheelbarrows full of Papiermarks into bakeries to buy a single loaf of bread?

Might not be a bad time to invest in wheelbarrows.


-Rob

 

[Bob Hubbard]

My numbers are based around giving the money to small businesses, not all taxpayers.

The guy who makes the $750k a year, should have his own safety net. The person trying to feed and house a family on what 25hrs at McD pays doesn't have that luxury. The folks who had the big paychecks, can fend for themselves, because they -should- have been smart enough to put something on the side. If not, they'll learn the hardway what it's like to pull that bag of meatlike stuff and cardboard and half empty drinks out of the can at the local burger barn.

It's not a matter of 'taking' anything from them, but looking out for the guys at the bottom who could use the boost to move to the next step.

I'm using myself as an example here. Gross income of all my businesses is less than $100k. I pocket less than $40k (No I'm not saying how much it actually is). I live ok, I eat ok (ie not mac n cheese, but not lobster either), and I can afford to buy a couple videos or text books each month. But business isn't so good that I can currently afford to expand as I need to, or upgrade as fast as I should.

I'd spend the $50k this way:
$4,000 on software, $5,000 on hardware (2 new pcs, monitors, network gear, and a more robust backend backup system). $6,000 on server enhancements.
That leaves $35,000 which would be seed money to expand employees (currently, I subcontract as needed, but staff would help greatly). This lets me bring in -2- people at a base rate of $8 an hour. Not huge, but it's a base to build on.
I would hire 1 sales person with the intent to pay them $50,000 a year. At a straight 30% commision, that requires them to bring in about $166k in new business each year.
I would also have to hire another designer/artist to handle the work load. Possibly 2.
Without the initial $15k to upgrade so I can have something for them to work with, and without the seed to allow me to work on my business rather than in it, I'm stuck. I've talked to a number of others in similar situations who just need a little nudge in capital, but for a number of reasons can't qualify or raise it.

My idea is to focus on them. We lost over 500,000 jobs in December 2008. If every company on the average hired -1- person, we'd put 30 MILLION to work.
If -half- the SCorps alone put -1- person (on average) to work, that's still 1.3 MILLION jobs.
That's job creation. It's not the Fed's job to create jobs. Unless they are hiring themselves, it's meaningless.