A hesitant question

[JasonASmith]

Hello All,
I have been doing a TON of research on EPAK, and I have been lurking about on this forum(reading through the old posts, and such)
My plan is to start in October with Mr. Ronemus here in York, and hopefully influence my son to start in December/January with him as well.
I have a question that I am hesitant to ask...How long will it take to reach black belt? I am hesitant to ask it here, because, in my head, I am committed(sp?)...I don't really care HOW long it takes to get the ranking...I'm going to do it...I am simply curious how long it would take an average student to reach that rank in EPAK...
Actually, when it comes down to it, I think that I am asking this question so I know what to tell my son when he asks me(if he decides to do this with me)

 

[Flying Crane]

This is a common question that new students often ask, and I would try to steer you (and your son) away from this focus. If you see the belt too much as a "goal", then that becomes consuming and that is what you think about. What you should really be doing is focusing on the process of training, learning the material, and making as best as it can be for you, no matter what level you are at. The belt shouldn't be the goal of the journey, but rather just a milemarker along the way. Black belt of any level is no guarantee that one is a competent martial artist. At the same time, a low level colored belt student could be a very very effective martial artist if he is really good at what he knows.

When you focus on the belt, you learn what you must in order to fulfull the requirement for the next advancement. Instead, you need to focus on learning the material to fully understand it and make it work for you and fully "own" it yourself. Don't just learn it to fulfill a requirement. You are selling yourself short if you do.

That aside, everyone is different in how long it takes. A good instructor will not give promotions easily, and will wait until you are ready for it before even offering it to you. Some schools have a strict time schedule. This can be good and bad. On the good side, it dictates a minimum time to train before the next promotion. ON the bad side, sometimes promotions are given after the time is up, whether it is merited or not.

Some people are very gifted and train hard and earn rank sooner than others, and some people never earn black belt, no matter how long they train. This is OK, in my opinion, as not everyone is made of the same cloth, and not everyone merits the rank. Some people can legitimately earn black belt in three years or less, but I would say this is rare. It requires a good teacher and a gifted and dedicated student. Other people can take six or ten years or more.

Again, don't obsess on the rank. Instead, obsess on the training and learning.

 

[michaeledward]

At my school, when starting the program, the head instructor will state that it is approximately 4 years to receive a black belt. This assumes you attend class twice a week.

My job requires that I travel frequently. I have been studying for five and a half years. I currently have the rank of First Brown Belt. I have all of the material to test for my first black belt. The next test will be held in December. Hopefully, I will be prepared.

But, each school is different. My school teaches a modified 16 technique per belt system. I am required to execute 151 techniques, all forms through Form 4, most sets 1 & 2. Some schools have lower requirements, which may modify the length of time to Black.

 

[CTKempo Todd]

Understand though...
Black belt is nothing more than a new beginning..
As a black belt, you are now considered a serious student of the art..

 

[Shodan]

On average, coming regularly twice a week, they say it is around 6 years at our school. It took me 12......but then again.....my past instructors weren't stable and I went thru 4 of them before getting to a stable one!! I also had to take a year off to rehab. my blown out knee (middle of 3rd brown test). There are a lot of factors to consider like practice time, dedication, possible injury or time off for other things that come up. Hope you have a great journey in the Kenpo world though.....it's addicting!!

 

[Carol]

Hello All,
I have been doing a TON of research on EPAK, and I have been lurking about on this forum(reading through the old posts, and such)
My plan is to start in October with Mr. Ronemus here in York, and hopefully influence my son to start in December/January with him as well.
I have a question that I am hesitant to ask...How long will it take to reach black belt? I am hesitant to ask it here, because, in my head, I am committed(sp?)...I don't really care HOW long it takes to get the ranking...I'm going to do it...I am simply curious how long it would take an average student to reach that rank in EPAK...
Actually, when it comes down to it, I think that I am asking this question so I know what to tell my son when he asks me(if he decides to do this with me)

Average students don't get black belts

In all seriousness, that is a question for your instructor. Most schools have a track for adults to reach black in 4-5 years. However, that depends on class attendence, physical ability, and all the other things that life throws in the way. Your school may have a different track.

Children generally take longer to reach black, as the training is generally harder for children to grasp. Your school may or may not award a child a black belt, or they may award a junior black at a certain age...that is all the instructor's call.

Our school's track is usually 4.5 years minimum to black. There are a couple of adults that earned their first black in 4.5 years. Others took 6, 8, 10 years, I know of one that took 12 years. Keep in mind that life happens. A student at my school rejoined recently after a period away that could be measured in years, not months. First family issues happened, then a health matter required surgery. Now he's back, healthy and strong, and still fixed on his goal of earning black.

A black belt is just a white belt that never quit, says Ed Parker. Not quitting is more important than a timeline. Doing it right is better than doing it quickly. Enjoy the ride, and train hard

Best of luck to you!

 

[Kenpojujitsu3]

Hello All,
I have been doing a TON of research on EPAK, and I have been lurking about on this forum(reading through the old posts, and such)
My plan is to start in October with Mr. Ronemus here in York, and hopefully influence my son to start in December/January with him as well.
I have a question that I am hesitant to ask...How long will it take to reach black belt? I am hesitant to ask it here, because, in my head, I am committed(sp?)...I don't really care HOW long it takes to get the ranking...I'm going to do it...I am simply curious how long it would take an average student to reach that rank in EPAK...
Actually, when it comes down to it, I think that I am asking this question so I know what to tell my son when he asks me(if he decides to do this with me)

1) Welcome to Kenpo enjoy your stay

2) Average people don't make it to Black Belt

3) 1500 hours of class time or three 2 hour classes a week for 5 years. Which ever comes first.

 

[Flying Crane]

3) 1500 hours of class time or three 2 hour classes a week for 5 years. Which ever comes first.

Don't overlook the importance of practice outside classtime. If you don't work on the material on your own, you will never really "own" it. You will only learn to follow someone else, because that is all you will ever do in class. Without this, I'd say #3 above is gonna fall short.

 

[Kenpojujitsu3]

Don't overlook the importance of practice outside classtime. If you don't work on the material on your own, you will never really "own" it. You will only learn to follow someone else, because that is all you will ever do in class. Without this, I'd say #3 above is gonna fall short.

You got that right, I always think like practicing on your own is a given. But leave it to Crane to give away ALL the secrets

Thanks Crane!

Seriously though, good pick up. I definitely forgot to mention that not so minor detail.

 

[MJS]

Hello All,
I have been doing a TON of research on EPAK, and I have been lurking about on this forum(reading through the old posts, and such)
My plan is to start in October with Mr. Ronemus here in York, and hopefully influence my son to start in December/January with him as well.
I have a question that I am hesitant to ask...How long will it take to reach black belt? I am hesitant to ask it here, because, in my head, I am committed(sp?)...I don't really care HOW long it takes to get the ranking...I'm going to do it...I am simply curious how long it would take an average student to reach that rank in EPAK...
Actually, when it comes down to it, I think that I am asking this question so I know what to tell my son when he asks me(if he decides to do this with me)

Time frames will vary from school to school. The 'average' student by my definition, would be someone who performs at the minimum required level. That being said, I can imagine it would take a bit longer compared to someone who puts in extra effort. Now, this is not to say that the 'average' person is no good, just that it should be expected to take longer.

I would rather see someone focus on getting a solid understanding of the basics, all of the material required for each level, understand that material, how it works, how to apply it, be able to make it work and be able to teach it. That IMO, should be the foremost concern of the student. The Black Belt is just the beginning.

Mike

 

[Flying Crane]

You got that right, I always think like practicing on your own is a given. But leave it to Crane to give away ALL the secrets

Thanks Crane!

Seriously though, good pick up. I definitely forgot to mention that not so minor detail.

I'm alway surprised at how many people never figure this out. In some schools, I have seen people who have trained for years, who have a decent amount of skill and attend class 4 or 5 days a week. They are in great shape, but they never figure out what to do or how to train if someone isn't there giving them instructions. This becomes painfully obvious when they try to teach a class. They don't know how to guide a coherent training session. It is just amazing.

I think that sometimes having too many classtime options can actually get in the way of one's training. If it is too easy to go to class, or there is pressure to be in class all the time, then there is never time to work on your own. But this is tremendously important because, like I stated, this is when you begin to "own" the material.

 

[Kenpojujitsu3]

I'm alway surprised at how many people never figure this out. In some schools, I have seen people who have trained for years, who have a decent amount of skill and attend class 4 or 5 days a week. They are in great shape, but they never figure out what to do or how to train if someone isn't there giving them instructions. This becomes painfully obvious when they try to teach a class. They don't know how to guide a coherent training session. It is just amazing.

I think that sometimes having too many classtime options can actually get in the way of one's training. If it is too easy to go to class, or there is pressure to be in class all the time, then there is never time to work on your own. But this is tremendously important because, like I stated, this is when you begin to "own" the material.

You're hitting the nail right on the head as usual. Full agreement here.

 

[KenpoDave]

While I agree with everyone on the importance of the focus being on the training rather than the rank, I think that the question asked is valid, and the answer must consider the point of view of the asker.

He is new to the arts, so his opinion of "black belt" is different from some of the rest of us. Black belt, to him, may be the end, the pinnacle, the "degree" so to speak.

He is a man who has a family, and given the research he says he has put in, is already, in a sense, a serious student of kenpo. His considered framing of the question leads me to believe he is not a man who is bored and needs something to do with his free time, but rather someone who is busy, but wants to do this, and is trying to find out everything he needs to know before making the leap.

He seems to be approaching this the way one approaches the purchase of a new car. He has chosen the one he wants, now he wants to know what sort of a commitment will be required of him to own it.

We would not expect the car salesman to say, "You should really focus on driving the car, don't worry about how many years it's gonna take you to pay it off."

That said, I have had gifted, dedicated students make it in 2 years. I have some who have been with me for 12, off and on, who still are not there, simply because they are not committed. I don't see why a committed, intelligent person who is able and willing to put in the time can't do it in 3-4. And closer to 3.

And that said, if you find the right instructor and the right art, you will very quickly realize that your original commitment is moot, because, like the rest of us, you will quickly become obsessed.

 

[JasonASmith]

While I agree with everyone on the importance of the focus being on the training rather than the rank, I think that the question asked is valid, and the answer must consider the point of view of the asker.

He is new to the arts, so his opinion of "black belt" is different from some of the rest of us. Black belt, to him, may be the end, the pinnacle, the "degree" so to speak.

He is a man who has a family, and given the research he says he has put in, is already, in a sense, a serious student of kenpo. His considered framing of the question leads me to believe he is not a man who is bored and needs something to do with his free time, but rather someone who is busy, but wants to do this, and is trying to find out everything he needs to know before making the leap.

He seems to be approaching this the way one approaches the purchase of a new car. He has chosen the one he wants, now he wants to know what sort of a commitment will be required of him to own it.

We would not expect the car salesman to say, "You should really focus on driving the car, don't worry about how many years it's gonna take you to pay it off."

That said, I have had gifted, dedicated students make it in 2 years. I have some who have been with me for 12, off and on, who still are not there, simply because they are not committed. I don't see why a committed, intelligent person who is able and willing to put in the time can't do it in 3-4. And closer to 3.

And that said, if you find the right instructor and the right art, you will very quickly realize that your original commitment is moot, because, like the rest of us, you will quickly become obsessed.

Thank you, I take that as a compliment...
And to all that responded, thank you, as well...
When it comes down to it, I just want to UNDERSTAND this art...I want to experience everything that I can in this art...I want to learn, dammit!(sorry if I offended anyone there)

 

[CTKempo Todd]

I want to learn, dammit!(sorry if I offended anyone there)

Jason..
I Don't think you've offended anyone here...
Keep pressing, that is how you learn..

After all, we are all students just like you..

 

[KenpoDave]

Thank you, I take that as a compliment...
And to all that responded, thank you, as well...
When it comes down to it, I just want to UNDERSTAND this art...I want to experience everything that I can in this art...I want to learn, dammit!(sorry if I offended anyone there)

You should. I wish I had more students that approached their training this way.