I found this on the BBC site and it was quite an interesting read as it gave a point of view not commonly heard:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-10547610
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-10547610
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I found this on the BBC site and it was quite an interesting read as it gave a point of view not commonly heard:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-10547610
However there remains in us that spark, that 'warrior' gene that makes us want to go out and do battle.
Thirty years from now, when you're sitting around your fireside with your grandson on your knee and he asks you, "What did you do in the great World War II," you won't have to say, "Well... I shoveled **** in Louisiana."
From the movie Patton:
There's always a desire to be part of history. And yeah, if you have kids and they find out you were in the service, they will ask about what you did.
[SIZE=+1]WESTMORELAND. O that we now had here[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] But one ten thousand of those men in England[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] That do no work to-day![/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]KING. What's he that wishes so?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] My cousin Westmoreland? No, my fair cousin;[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] If we are mark'd to die, we are enow[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] To do our country loss; and if to live,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] The fewer men, the greater share of honour.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] God's will! I pray thee, wish not one man more.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] By Jove, I am not covetous for gold,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] Nor care I who doth feed upon my cost;[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] It yearns me not if men my garments wear;[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] Such outward things dwell not in my desires.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] But if it be a sin to covet honour,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] I am the most offending soul alive.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] No, faith, my coz, wish not a man from England.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] God's peace! I would not lose so great an honour[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] As one man more methinks would share from me[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] For the best hope I have. O, do not wish one more![/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] Rather proclaim it, Westmoreland, through my host,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] That he which hath no stomach to this fight,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] Let him depart; his passport shall be made,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] And crowns for convoy put into his purse;[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] We would not die in that man's company[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] That fears his fellowship to die with us.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] This day is call'd the feast of Crispian.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] He that outlives this day, and comes safe home,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] Will stand a tip-toe when this day is nam'd,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] And rouse him at the name of Crispian.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] He that shall live this day, and see old age,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] Will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbours,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] And say 'To-morrow is Saint Crispian.'[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] And say 'These wounds I had on Crispian's day.'[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] Old men forget; yet all shall be forgot,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] But he'll remember, with advantages,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] What feats he did that day. Then shall our names,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] Familiar in his mouth as household words-[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] Harry the King, Bedford and Exeter,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] Warwick and Talbot, Salisbury and Gloucester-[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] Be in their flowing cups freshly rememb'red.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] This story shall the good man teach his son;[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] From this day to the ending of the world,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] But we in it shall be remembered-[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] For he to-day that sheds his blood with me[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] This day shall gentle his condition;[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] And gentlemen in England now-a-bed[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] Shall think themselves accurs'd they were not here,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.[/SIZE]
You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap around women for five years because they didnt wear a veil, General Mattis said during a forum in San Diego in 2005. You know guys like that aint got no manhood left anyway, so its a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them.
While we will move swiftly and aggressively against those who resist, we will treat all others with decency, demonstrating chivalry and soldierly compassion for people who have endured a lifetime under Saddams oppression, he wrote. Engage your brain before you engage your weapon, the general added.
An article in today's New York Times regarding the often impolitic statements of the Marine general now in command there:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/20/world/20mattis.html?_r=1&pagewanted=2
Often a bit, shall we say, loose with the lip...
But he is also capable of making more thoughtful statements:
The first statement is as my mother would say 'common' -not befitting a leader, the second is better.
Well, he is a Marine. We're funny like that. A common expression during Vietnam amongst Marines during the "Hearts and Minds" campaign was "Let us win your hearts and minds, or we'll burn your damned huts down."
We have a saying 'engage brain before opening mouth'.
I prefer Tim Collins' speech, made off the cuff. Still we have a tradition of good stirring speeches made before battles, have a look at Queen Elizabeth the First's, 'I may have the body of a frail woman' speech, Nelson's 'England expects' and Churchill's 'We will fight them on the beaches'.
The problem with the type of saying Bill quoted is that it makes them look and sound like thugs, do they want to go down in history as something they aren't? Do they want to be seen as nothing more than illiterate and ignorant killers or would they prefer to have posterity record them as something nobler defending their country?
I don't know. Patton said some similar things, and his posterity looks pretty good to me.
It's a cultural thing probably. We don't mind if our general's language gets a little rough on occassion.
We have a saying 'engage brain before opening mouth'.
I prefer Tim Collins' speech, made off the cuff. Still we have a tradition of good stirring speeches made before battles, have a look at Queen Elizabeth the First's, 'I may have the body of a frail woman' speech, Nelson's 'England expects' and Churchill's 'We will fight them on the beaches'.
The problem with the type of saying Bill quoted is that it makes them look and sound like thugs, do they want to go down in history as something they aren't? Do they want to be seen as nothing more than illiterate and ignorant killers or would they prefer to have posterity record them as something nobler defending their country?
[SIZE=+2]You cannot exaggerate about the Marines. They are convinced to the point of arrogance, that they are the most ferocious fighters on earth- and the amusing thing about it is that they are. [/SIZE]
Father Kevin Keaney
1st Marine Division Chaplain
Korean War
I think Patton's reputation may only look that way to Americans, to others we see his behaviour as, shall we say, questionable. He's not to our taste certainly, it's not the language it's the sentiments displayed, we like the play hard but fair thing going on, we don't like the bully boy attitude. It's the 'iron fist in the velvet glove' take on things or the 'talk quietly but carry a big stick' attitude. We like our officers to be gentlemen, hard fighting but always gentlemen. As Tim Collins said you don't let down the side.
All of our officers are gentlemen by Act of Congress. Says so right on their commissions. With that out of the way, we prefer hard-chargers to lead us; we value fair play too, but only after we've knocked the other guy's **** in the dirt and we're helping him up again. One of the few Texan sayings I appreciate is, "Mess with the bull, you get the horns."[/quote]
Ee lad thats that's a bit rude! though it tends to be sheep here.
One should never mistake a British officers politeness for weakness.
Well isn't this the way it always is between a parent and young adult kid?![]()