A Different Approach to Handling Gangs....
- Thread starter ArmorOfGod
- Start date
Well it looks like the police there are unwilling to help and the city is tired of these teenagers running everything, although I feel it is wrong to take the law into your own hands, sometime we must do what we must to stop being victoms of such things.
CoryKS
Senior Master
People expect a standard of law and order in their community. If they feel that that standard is not being upheld they will appeal to law enforcement to do a better job (which these folks have done) and, if that fails, will find an alternative approach. It's curious that officials jumped right on the vigilante aspect of the letter without addressing any of the crimes cited or solutions offered.
I'm not 100% certain that I agree that "taking the law into their own hands" is a bad thing. The very act of establishing a police department and judicial system is an example of a community taking the law into its own hands. What we're seeing here is a vote of no confidence by a segment of the community. Rather than threaten any would-be vigilantes the police would be better advised to get a handle on existing crime, if they can. Arresting vigilantes without addressing the crimes which incited them will give the impression of weakness, because the villagers will feel that the police are focusing on softer targets (victimized citizens vs. hardened criminals).
Nevertheless, the best way to handle crime is through a professional law enforcement department. I hope that the villagers and the police can come up with an effective solution without resorting to vigilantism.
I'm not 100% certain that I agree that "taking the law into their own hands" is a bad thing. The very act of establishing a police department and judicial system is an example of a community taking the law into its own hands. What we're seeing here is a vote of no confidence by a segment of the community. Rather than threaten any would-be vigilantes the police would be better advised to get a handle on existing crime, if they can. Arresting vigilantes without addressing the crimes which incited them will give the impression of weakness, because the villagers will feel that the police are focusing on softer targets (victimized citizens vs. hardened criminals).
Nevertheless, the best way to handle crime is through a professional law enforcement department. I hope that the villagers and the police can come up with an effective solution without resorting to vigilantism.
Well how about the pros doing their jobs and taking care of these kids.
Everyone is so damned worried about the rights of everyone that they ignore victims rights in favor of the criminal's rights. Violate one thing during the arrest procedure and they're walking free. Ridiculous and sad.
So it's easier to not make the arrests and hope nobody gets killed.
The villagers are obviously sick and tired of it all. I can't say I blame them.
CoryKS
Senior Master
Yes, I believe that would fit the definition of 'an effective solution'.
OP
ArmorOfGod
Senior Master
- Thread Starter
- #6
Does anyone in the U.S. remember the Guardian Angels back in the early 1980's? I remember it vividly, even though I was only about 7 years old at the time.
A group of citizens formed a watch patrol and walked around in red berets and white tshirts, in New York and Chicago (I believe). All of the news reports went insane reporting on them, making them out to be a street gang themselves, when all they were doing was patrolling and reporting things to the police.
A year or two ago, I researched them and found they are still around, but not in any kind of large number. It's a shame; I always liked them.
AoG
A group of citizens formed a watch patrol and walked around in red berets and white tshirts, in New York and Chicago (I believe). All of the news reports went insane reporting on them, making them out to be a street gang themselves, when all they were doing was patrolling and reporting things to the police.
A year or two ago, I researched them and found they are still around, but not in any kind of large number. It's a shame; I always liked them.
AoG
OP
ArmorOfGod
Senior Master
- Thread Starter
- #7
Look at what I just found:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guardian_Angels That is a decent article about them and their history
http://www.guardianangels.org/ That is the home page.
When I researched them last time, it took hours to find anything on them. Just then, the home page and Wiki page came right up.
AoG
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guardian_Angels That is a decent article about them and their history
http://www.guardianangels.org/ That is the home page.
When I researched them last time, it took hours to find anything on them. Just then, the home page and Wiki page came right up.
AoG
CoryKS
Senior Master
Not necessarily a shame... the best end for groups like this is obsolescence, meaning that the conditions which led to their formation have changed for the better. I don't live in any of the areas they patrolled, so I don't know if that's the case.
Yes, they are still around. In fact, they just opened a chapter in Orlando Florida. They have been all over the local news lately.
I believe they started the chapter in Orlando because over the last year Orlando's homicide rate has shot up and police haven't been able to stem it. Although the high rate is largely from certain areas and so the Guardian Angels chapter will be patrolling the worst of those areas.
I like the fact that the citizens are getting involved, when people organize and take action things can get done, I'm not so sure driving around in vans beating the crap out of mouthy teens (was that last statement redundant?) helpful. Now like we have organized here a "Citizens on Patrol" group would be helpful reporting directly to the police might be good.
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Solidman82
Purple Belt
This article and the actions of these people so purely reflects my recent desires. This New Years my little brother got his arm broken and now has to clip his two front teeth in like a hockey player because he was drunk and sounds like a smartass when he says "Happy New Year" to strangers.
Granted, he is a smartass, but he actually does mean well. Still doesn't warrant him having to bite the curb and almost get killed, his girlfriend getting smacked and his friend having to take a beating just so they can run away for their lives. The cops said they wouldn't even try to do anything, nothing they could do.
This is the place I grew up and I would really just love to go back there with some sticks and find people who look like pieces of garbage (I'm sure I'd be right) and stick notes to their bloody faces warning people to act like civilised human beings.
But then, how hypocrytical would that be.
Anyway I'm pretty pissed off...
Granted, he is a smartass, but he actually does mean well. Still doesn't warrant him having to bite the curb and almost get killed, his girlfriend getting smacked and his friend having to take a beating just so they can run away for their lives. The cops said they wouldn't even try to do anything, nothing they could do.
This is the place I grew up and I would really just love to go back there with some sticks and find people who look like pieces of garbage (I'm sure I'd be right) and stick notes to their bloody faces warning people to act like civilised human beings.
But then, how hypocrytical would that be.
Anyway I'm pretty pissed off...
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About 2 years ago the Guardian Angels started a chapter in my town because of all the gang violence around here, but they werent taken seriously and had problems with the police, so they just gave up.
Steel Tiger
Senior Master
I agree entirely, the police should be dealing with the situation.
However, it looks like this is occurring in a small community in England and as such the local constabulary is likely to number two or three at most and, of course, they do not carry firearms. It may be that the gang has them outnumbered and overstretched.
Oh dear ... rant-mode ...
Not wanting to sound like an intense Bible-Belter but this is what happens when you allow the legal system to be so twisted out of shape because of the over-loud lobbying (it doesn't do to say "Bleating" after all) of what we used to term "Bleeding Hearts and Artists".
The teens of today are of the opinion (somewhat justified by the lack of action) that they can do whatever they wish because noone has the legal right to stop them.
This has largely resulted from the ridiculous, successful, campaigns to stop corporal punishment, or indeed discipline of any kind being applied to misbehaving children. Is it any wonder they are now out of control?
We need to relearn the lesson as a society that there is a difference between discipline and child abuse. The former produces viable citizens and a more stable society with a proper degree of respect for law and authority.
The latter, unless it is perpetrated very surrepticiously, can be contained and dealt with, to an extent at least.
Not wanting to sound like an intense Bible-Belter but this is what happens when you allow the legal system to be so twisted out of shape because of the over-loud lobbying (it doesn't do to say "Bleating" after all) of what we used to term "Bleeding Hearts and Artists".
The teens of today are of the opinion (somewhat justified by the lack of action) that they can do whatever they wish because noone has the legal right to stop them.
This has largely resulted from the ridiculous, successful, campaigns to stop corporal punishment, or indeed discipline of any kind being applied to misbehaving children. Is it any wonder they are now out of control?
We need to relearn the lesson as a society that there is a difference between discipline and child abuse. The former produces viable citizens and a more stable society with a proper degree of respect for law and authority.
The latter, unless it is perpetrated very surrepticiously, can be contained and dealt with, to an extent at least.
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