4th Dan KKW testing students

[IcemanSK]

Does anyone have the place where it say (yes, chapter, page, etc.) of the KKW textbook (or website) that 4th Dan KKW are able to test their students & sign certs under their own name?

I have a bet with a friend & need this to settle it.

 

[Miles]

Sorry Ice, the applicable regulation is Article 5 "Recommendation." It does not list the rank of the Instructor entitled to make the recommendation. But, a 4th dan can recommend up to 3rd dan.

 

[NPTKD]

Article 20 : Gup Promotion Test The instructor who holds 4th Dan or higher Dan has a right to test the Gup promotion and issue the Gup certificates by his name for his students. By-laws for Gup promotion test will be made up separately.


From the KKW website... Hope it helps

 

[IcemanSK]

Sorry Ice, the applicable regulation is Article 5 "Recommendation." It does not list the rank of the Instructor entitled to make the recommendation. But, a 4th dan can recommend up to 3rd dan.

Thanks Miles. I just wish it was as specific as article 20 is re: gup testing. Any "official" printed material will help.

Thanks NPTKD for your assistance as well!

 

[IcemanSK]

Sorry Ice, the applicable regulation is Article 5 "Recommendation." It does not list the rank of the Instructor entitled to make the recommendation. But, a 4th dan can recommend up to 3rd dan.

Article 5:1 "It is not allowed to be recommended by the individual
instructors in those countries. Individual instructors are not permitted to make personal
recommendations." (Kukkiwon website under "Regulations Article 5:1)

The way I read that, it's only organization presidents (not individual instructors) can recommend a student for dan rank. It says nothing about being a 4th Dan (or an individual instructor for that matter) having this right.

I'm not doubting what you're saying Miles. But the articles here seem to suggest I'd need to be a part of a larger organization & go through them in order to test my people.


Any help that I can get to clear up the waters is appreciated.

 

[terryl965]

That simply is not true, as a fourth you are allowed to test up to one dan below yourself.

 

[Miles]

My notes from the KKW Instructor Course is that if the MNA (member national association) controls 70% of the TKD activity in the country, then the application must be processed through the MNA. There were 75 such countries in 2004 when I took the course. Those were called Category II countries. The Phillipines was an example of a Category II country.

Since in the USA there are many TKD students who are not members of the MNA (which is USA Taekwondo or USAT), so private instructors such as myself can recommend. The USA is a Category I country, and there were 100 other countries in this grouping.

 

[Miles]

Article 20 : Gup Promotion Test The instructor who holds 4th Dan or higher Dan has a right to test the Gup promotion and issue the Gup certificates by his name for his students. By-laws for Gup promotion test will be made up separately.


From the KKW website... Hope it helps

Gups are treated differently since the Kukkiwon is not really concerned about students below black belt (no offense intended to gup holders). But NPTKD does hit on the fact that the Kukkiwon believes you should hold at least a 4th dan to be considered an Instructor. You can take the Instructor Course with a 1st dan but you don't get your Instructor Certificate until 4th dan. In Korea, you can't open up a dojang unless you are at least a 4th dan. This is the root of the belief that a 4th dan is a "master". (that's another discussion)

There is a KKW regulation which says that an instructor should not issue black belt certification in their own name or they could lose their right to recommend students for dan certification.

 

[IcemanSK]

My notes from the KKW Instructor Course is that if the MNA (member national association) controls 70% of the TKD activity in the country, then the application must be processed through the MNA. There were 75 such countries in 2004 when I took the course. Those were called Category II countries. The Phillipines was an example of a Category II country.

Since in the USA there are many TKD students who are not members of the MNA (which is USA Taekwondo or USAT), so private instructors such as myself can recommend. The USA is a Category I country, and there were 100 other countries in this grouping.

What you're saying makes perfect sense...and thank you for explaining it in this kind of detail. The way it's written it makes it seem as one just as to go through an MNA. Many instructors that have their own associations use the idea that, unless you're connected with an org. like their's, one cannot test your students...no matter your rank. It's a great way for someone to make money from other's students.

I just wish it spelled it out better for Category I countries.

As always, thanks Miles!

 

[msmitht]

As a school owner/5th Dan and club member of the USAT I am allowed to recommend up to 4th dan THROUGH the usat to the Kukkiwon. That means that I can hold the test at my school but not send for the KKW cert's directly. I can not issue my own certificates. They would be worthless outside of my school (just like any cert other than an official Kukkiwon Poom/Dan) and could get me in trouble with the usat/KKW. I do know of MANY korean 7/8/9th dans who order them directly and cut out the usat alltogether. I ave also met many students who were issued fake Certs from their previous instructors.

 

[Spookey]

"There is a KKW regulation which says that an instructor should not issue black belt certification in their own name or they could lose their right to recommend students for dan certification. "

Miles, could you provide any further information, perhaps a link to the Kukkiwon website, showing specifics?

HUmble Regards,
Spookey

 

[Miles]

Michael,

It is Article 19 of the Kukkiwon Regulations-am providing the language (hopefully) and the link:
http://kukkiwon.or.kr/english/examination/examination08.jsp?div=01#19


Article 19 : Sanctions If any of the following violations are committed, the violator shall be sanctioned by expulsion, deprivation of Dan certificates and/or suspension of memberships.
(1) Alteration or disqualification of Dan certificates
(2) Dan promotion testing executed by unauthorized persons
(3) Issuing Dan certificates by the name of own instructors or Member National Association