12 stages of Sumbrada in Inosanto blend kali?

[Mark Lynn]

I know there are some people of the list that study the Inosanto blend kali method. A while back I remember reading some discussion on the Sumbrada drills. Not sure if it was MT or maybe the escrima digest. Anyway I was wondering if you could help me out.

A friend loaned me an old grainy video tape of an Inosanto seminar from back in the 80's. (My wife walked in while I was watching it one day and asked "How can you watch that? The sound is terrible and you can't tell who's teaching") Anyway I can tell who it is. However Guro Dan is talking about how there are 12 levels of Sumbrada. And he states that #5 is Punyo Sumbrada.

Years ago I studied JKD/Kali before I switched over to the Presas Arnis methods. And I vaugely remember about hearing of 12 levels of Sumbrada, in my notes from that instructor I believe I have down completely different levels. So now I'm wondering what the 12 levels are?

He doesn't go into the rest of the levels at this seminar, at least I haven't seen them. Just wondering.

Thanks
Mark

 

[bart]

Hey There,

When I was at the Inosanto Academy I asked about that and I saw a demonstration. I asked an instructor and he brought over two students and they did the demonstration while he walked away. I can't remember the details about it but it looked to be basically the same sequence of movements done with different methods of attack, each method of attack garnering its own number. Interestingly enough I repeated this question during another class with a different teacher and he demonstrated it with another student but not all 12, just a the first 3 or 4 I think. They reflected the same stuff, but they were in different order.

A few weeks later I stopped by Mark Mikita's school in Culver City and I must have caught him at a particularly generous and loquatious moment because he demonstrated all of those methods. This was a really impromptu discussion and demonstration so I didn't retain much of the exact parameters of what was going on. It confirmed my initial conclusions but he demonstrated a change in footwork and called them "phases of sumbrada" like "phases of the moon". From what I gleaned again it was a preset pattern of attacks and responses with different numbers for each different method of attack. His Sumbrada demonstration was much more detailed and included changes in footwork, stance, and attitude based upon the method of attack. His sumbrada was also in a different order than the previous two demos. Mark studied at the Inosanto Academy during the 80's and so his Sumbrada may be more contemporary with that on your tape. Mark's website is www.fightology.com and he seems to be happy to share what he knows.

From what I've seen, the Sumbrada stuff has changed over the years. My teacher, Ramon Rubia, has demonstrated the Sumbrada that he learned at the IMB under Richard Bustillo and it too comes in a different order. Ultimately I don't think that the order supercedes the content in importance. Good luck in your search.

 

[lhommedieu]

See also Rick Faye's Sumbrada tape that is available through MKG.

I haven't seen Rich Tucci's series but I'm sure it's pretty good.

Best,

Steve

 

[Wes Tasker]

FWIW, I believe the 'sumbrada' taught through Inosanto Kali is actually from Serrada Eskrima. Once one learned the pre-set counter-for-counter one then started changing the attacks which changed responses which changed footwork etc. etc. I'd be interested to know what the 12 stages are as well. They could be something Guro Dan added or just organised from Manong Cabales' teaching. I would also second Steve's reccomendation of Guro Rick Faye's tape on Sumbrada. It is quite good.

-wes tasker

 

[Mark Lynn]

Thanks for the input guys.

I use to have it kind of organized with the different weapons combinations, different patterns, skill related i.e.disarming, throwing, adding in kicks etc. etc. however those notes are no where to be found (I guess) so I just thought I would ask.

Any more input would be appreciated.
Mark

 

[DoxN4cer]

So could the 12 levels of Sumbrada be considered "sub-systems" of that particular FMA? There are a number of FMA that are grouped into sub-systems to aid in learning. I've modeled my teaching curriculum in that way as well. It makes it easier to teach specific skills in a logical order.

TK

 

[Mark Lynn]

So could the 12 levels of Sumbrada be considered "sub-systems" of that particular FMA? There are a number of FMA that are grouped into sub-systems to aid in learning. I've modeled my teaching curriculum in that way as well. It makes it easier to teach specific skills in a logical order.

TK

Yeah in a sense it can, however I think in the context of what I saw on the tape, and what I was asking in the question I don't believe that was what Guro Inosanto was saying.

However a while back I think on the escrima digest there was a discussion on the subsystems and I think someone mentioned about their being 12 sub systems in his system. But that I really don't know about. I took what he was saying as 12 different levels/methods/drills of teaching in the drill pattern/series and they were listed except you couldn't see the list and the tape's so grainy you couldn't read it if they took the list and put it in front of the video camera anyway.

Mark

 

[DoxN4cer]

It's my understanding that PTK is set up with numerous sub-systems (doce methodos, et al.) It's a very logical progression.

 

[Mark Lynn]

It's my understanding that PTK is set up with numerous sub-systems (doce methodos, et al.) It's a very logical progression.

Yeah I have seen a little of PTK and some of their sub systems (mostly though it was Bill McGrath's PT). But I don't think that was where Guro Dan was coming from. He is going to be here in August I might drive over and see if I can see him and just ask. who knows.

Hey I sent you a PM about another thread.

Mark