Western Styles List

[James Kovacich]

By todays standards the styles listed are considered traditional. With all of the new systems coming up the list would never be complete. The question is what qualifies a new system. Theres no question whether some are created for financial gains but the theres no doubt that a lot are effective and its not fair to put an effective modern system with a traditional system that dosen't recognize it. I praise you for tryin".

As far as I know people in jail are not allowed to practice martial arts.

Actually the truth is exactly the opposite. We cannot stop them by rule or prevent them in practice. We can step in if it gets out of hand such as takedowns, ground fighting etc for their own safety but otherwise no. They teach each other how to box for example. But far worse than that they teach other disarming techniques i.e. how to disarm a police officer. They teach each other how to prevent searches or cuffing. In my D.T. class that I teach to Police/Corrections recruits in the Academy I show a film of prisoners in D.O.C. teaching each other edged weapon techniques using tooth brushes.

The Bg's of today have far more access to techniques & tactics than at anytime in the past. Not all inmates participate in these 'training' sessions, but it is a dangerous minority.

I recall specifically two instances of trained professionals. First was a W/M who fought a B/M in the dayroom of a pod. The W/M happened to be a semi-pro boxer on the outside. The B/M looked afterwards like he had a bat taken to his face. Second, a very small A/M took on 6 other I/M's in the pod who were trying to muscle him out of his meal. Officers responding said the A/M took out all 6 within seconds and then simply went into his cell and laid down to take a nap. They said it was the darndest thing they ever saw

I have some systems for your list;

America -
Way no Michi Ryu
Dean Moo Kwon Do
Zhao Dai Wei

Russia -
Agni Kempo

Iran -
Agni kickboxing

Take care.

[Cruentus]

In my D.T. class that I teach to Police/Corrections recruits in the Academy I show a film of prisoners in D.O.C. teaching each other edged weapon techniques using tooth brushes.

I've worked with LEO on occasion as well, and I've seen the police training video your refering to ("Surviving edged weapons," or something like that). Anyways, I distinctly remember that the people practicing the knife techniques w/ the toothbrush also had look-outs for guards, as they were attempting to practice in "secret." This makes me think that there is a line that is drawn for MA training. I might be able to practice forms, for instance, but I would think if I were to practice knife partner work (like in FMA), then I might get in trouble if I were in jail. There is still that element of "Threat" that allows an officer to stop a bahavior if it threatens, or could lead to potential harm. The element of "threat" is the reason why I can't walk down the street with a shot gun on my shoulder, even though it's not concealed, and I'm not pointing it at anyone.

Anyways, I'm not a LEO, so I don't know for sure, and I haven't really had the opportunity to ask a LEO recently. I am just having doubts about the scope of their practice. Maybe it's different in different states, but I know that in Michigan that this element of threat might be a limitation. What do you think?

[arnisador]

I saw a handcuffing class outdoors this past week--police training I believe.

[arnisador]

Someone suggested that there is a traditional Finnish knife-fighting system called kas-pin.

[Arthur]

Don't forget Russia

Sambo
Systema
R.O.S.S.
Kadochnikov System
Skobar
Ukranian Boxing
"Ruknopashni Boi"
Buza

and a host of others that are too many for me to bother trying to list. You can see a big list over on the RMAx.tv site though.

Arthur

[jellyman]

This style is also known as "51 Hands"

That's 52 hand blocks.

From what I hear, it's developed from the street, not jail. It's an empty hand style.

Forum brother Stickgrappler has probably the most authoritative articles on the subject available for free on the web.

his site :
http://stickgrappler.tripod.com/

the portion specific to 52 handblocks/jailhouse rock :

http://stickgrappler.tripod.com/52/52.html

check it out, some of the moves remind me of systema, so it's not hard for me to believe it could be used in jail.

[arnisador]

Originally posted by jellyman
his site :
http://stickgrappler.tripod.com/

Yes, there's definitely a lot of good stuff here.

Paul,

D.O.C. might have different regulations than does County facilities. We could write a disciplinary report but that is not an actual charge. Another possibility is to 'red dot' the individual which means they are in handcuffs & shackles any time they are outside their one-man cell.

We can also prevent 'horse-play' if it gets out of hand. But as far as County/Municipalities it's a touch gray area. We don't want to violate their 'rights'

I know the video your refering to and it is 'Surviving Edged Weapons'. I think they were posting look outs not so much for what they were doing as with what they were using. Inmates are not permitted to take items out into a rec yard such as towels, toothbrushes etc. At least the ones I am familar with. And of course their perception that what they were doing was against a rule. It is wrong but actually stopping it is altogether a different story unfortunately.

arnisador,

From what I have been told, Agni is a Sanskript word from the Persian area. It's exact meaning I'm not sure but it seems to reflect some type of fighting philosophy.

[pesilat]

I think the Hawaiian one is "Lima Lama"

Depends on how you classify where an art is from.

I'd classify Jun Fan/JKD as an American art. It was developed in America by an American citizen.

Mike

You can add Mya Ryu Jitsu

Yes,there is a Finnish style kas-pin but it also includes plenty of unarmed military oriented fighting.
Add "kalaripayit" to India.

[moromoro]

mr long

you posted that native martial arts of australia and new zealand


Australia
Koonomon Yogip Baip
Pou Taiaha
New Zealand
Mau
Mau Rakau
Pahi a Mau Mau
Tueiatanga


where did you get this information??? do these styles still exist???

iam interested in researching this also

terry

What is the criteria for "western"? Isn't India considered part of Asia? What of Australia? Are we talking geography or "ruling" countries? Even if it is based on which imperialist dog runs the place, I think India is independent of England now isn't it? Which brings us back to geography.

Side note: When I lived in Cairo (Egypt, not Kentucky), I had an opportunity to play at a little Sebekkah. It is a grappling art and I remember distinctly that the movements used so much waist power to execute that I was sore in the middle even after I returned to the states.

geoffrey

[arnisador]

Turkish wrestling may not qualify as Western but in any event:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...0/SP265658.DTL

Every summer, hundreds of Turkish men wearing only long leather shorts pour olive oil over each other's backs, arms and legs. Then they wrestle for 40 minutes, plus a 10-minute extra session if necessary, often in 100-degree heat.

It's sumo wrestling mixed with salad dressing.

To win, a wrestler must bring his competitor's shoulders to the ground or pick him up and take three steps. Sort of like sacking an NFL quarterback, except for the part about clothes.

"The sport is not without controversy," says James Helicke of the Associated Press. "Turkish pro-Islamic circles say the sport violates Islamic principles and that one move -- in which a wrestler puts his hand down the other's pants in an effort to flip him over -- is obscene."