Rickson Gracie Street (beach) fight

[Andrew Green]

[Brian R. VanCise]

Originally Posted by Andrew Green

Always a good find Andrew! Thanks.

[FearlessFreep]

What the....?

OK, a guy insults the Gracie family so one of them hits the guy and challenges him to a fight and then eventually gets to pounding him until he admits that BJJ is the best MA?

"My Kung-Fu rules your Kung-Fu.." sounds like a bad movie

[Rich Parsons]

No disresepct meant to the Gracie Family the practitioners or those who study or pratice other BJJ arts, but in some of the place I worked, if a fight like that ended up on the ground, half the crowd would have been trying to kick one while the other half would be trying to kick the other. The end result in a street fight is much different from my experience.

Maybe this has to do with culture and the fact that in the Brazilian culture if two wanted to settle an arguement then they would be allowed to settle it. Where as in some of the place I have been in my life, they have no such opinion/honor/beliefs for if they can stomp you they would.

Once again no disrespect to the great athletes, and those who practice BJJ or the Gracie Family. Just a different point of view from a different experience.

[Andrew Green]

Perhaps Brazil is a different culture...

[Rich Parsons]

Originally Posted by Andrew Green

Perhaps Brazil is a different culture...

Andrew,

I would have to think yes, as I stated above.

Note: I did not say the techniques did not work. I did not say anything negative, only expressed a different point of view of such a fight going to the ground.

Thank you

[Andrew Green]

That wasn't just to you, but also in response to the one above as well.

The glove slap across the face might not be the leading method of initiating a one on one challenge in some place anymore, but I imagine it's not died off competely

[Ybot]

You also have to take this video in the context in which it is presented. This is taken from the biggest piece of Gracie propaganda out there, the videos titled "Gracies In Action". These are the videos put out by Rorian Gracie before the Ultimate Fighting Championships. They were used as a recruting tool for his Jiu-jitsu before anyone had ever heard of BJJ. IMO the best way to watch these is with the sound off (because there is a lot of intresting footage), and to take what you can from the actual video.

Okay, that being said, I have to believe there is more to this particular fight than "he insulted the Gracie Family..." My understanding is the other man in the fight is Luta Libre's Hugo Duarte. At this time in Brazil there was a huge rivialry between the Luta Libre guys and the BJJ guys. There were school invasions where top practitioners of either side would go into the others schools and challege, or there where confrontations (like this one) between practitioners in public places.

[Andrew Green]

Originally Posted by Ybot

My understanding is the other man in the fight is Luta Libre's Hugo Duarte.

Yup, which is why he looks like he was actually able to put up a bit of a fight for a bit there

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Originally Posted by Ybot

You also have to take this video in the context in which it is presented. This is taken from the biggest piece of Gracie propaganda out there, the videos titled "Gracies In Action". These are the videos put out by Rorian Gracie before the Ultimate Fighting Championships. They were used as a recruting tool for his Jiu-jitsu before anyone had ever heard of BJJ. IMO the best way to watch these is with the sound off (because there is a lot of intresting footage), and to take what you can from the actual video.

Okay, that being said, I have to believe there is more to this particular fight than "he insulted the Gracie Family..." My understanding is the other man in the fight is Luta Libre's Hugo Duarte. At this time in Brazil there was a huge rivialry between the Luta Libre guys and the BJJ guys. There were school invasions where top practitioners of either side would go into the others schools and challege, or there where confrontations (like this one) between practitioners in public places.

My understanding -- and it's been years since I was with the "in" crowd on this stuff -- is that Hugo unecessarily injured a GJJ-camp member in either a competition or training session (i.e., school-mat challenge), and was bragging to the press that it was easy, and that all the Gracies were wussies. Rickson would have waited for an in-ring opportunity, were it not for the absolute beating Duarte gave to the GJJ guy, followed by the boasting. Ricksons actions hade more to do with embarrassing a bully and predator in public, than with badmouthing the Gracie name. But that part -- about a Gracie-camp member taking an unpleasant beating -- doesn't play well for either side in the press, and gets left out often.

I could be wrong, because it's been over 15 years. But I seem to have an odd recollection of something to this effect hiding in the context.

Regards,

Dave

[Rich Parsons]

Originally Posted by Kembudo-Kai Kempoka

My understanding -- and it's been years since I was with the "in" crowd on this stuff -- is that Hugo unecessarily injured a GJJ-camp member in either a competition or training session (i.e., school-mat challenge), and was bragging to the press that it was easy, and that all the Gracies were wussies. Rickson would have waited for an in-ring opportunity, were it not for the absolute beating Duarte gave to the GJJ guy, followed by the boasting. Ricksons actions hade more to do with embarrassing a bully and predator in public, than with badmouthing the Gracie name. But that part -- about a Gracie-camp member taking an unpleasant beating -- doesn't play well for either side in the press, and gets left out often.

I could be wrong, because it's been over 15 years. But I seem to have an odd recollection of something to this effect hiding in the context.

Regards,

Dave

Dave,

This possible address one or more of the questions I was not sure how to phrase.

Why was this being taped in the first place?

How did they know to contact the guy to get a copy?

What was said? Maybe it was the Gracie who picked the fight verbally?

Yet if it was to teach a bully a lesson that answers a lot.

Thanks

[Hand Sword]

Do you all think that the fight was more of evryone knowing who the participants were, and their status as fighters? If so, The culture is the same. When the 2 recognized, tough guys on the block square off, no one interferes, instead, just as in this video, They just watch and cheer. Kind of like who's the fastest draw, between two well known gun fighters.

[Ybot]

Originally Posted by Hand Sword

Do you all think that the fight was more of evryone knowing who the participants were, and their status as fighters? If so, The culture is the same. When the 2 recognized, tough guys on the block square off, no one interferes, instead, just as in this video, They just watch and cheer. Kind of like who's the fastest draw, between two well known gun fighters.

Yeah, that is what I believe. Duarte was a hugh name in the one camp Rickson in the other.

Also, thanks for the info Dave. I didn't know the particulars, but the way Rorian narrorates it it sounds rediculous. I knew of the rivalry, and figured that it was some particular incident that set off this confrontation.

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

Originally Posted by Rich Parsons

Dave,

This possible address one or more of the questions I was not sure how to phrase.

Why was this being taped in the first place?

How did they know to contact the guy to get a copy?

What was said? Maybe it was the Gracie who picked the fight verbally?

Yet if it was to teach a bully a lesson that answers a lot.

Thanks

Knowing the culture of fanism, likely someone rolling film anyway went up afterwards to say they got it on tape; would you like a copy.

[bushi jon]

Okay I am going to be the sour note. Two wrong do not make a right